Martial Arts Pole Arm Training/Advanced weapons training structure

[j.ouellet23]

I have a question regarding the training of pole arms(Fang Tian Ji, Spade, Trident etc) in traditional kung fu.
I have noticed there does not seem to be a clear structure to training for many pole-arms in the sense of seeing basics or a clear path, other then a small selection of forms that are seen on youtube. Even I don't see many DVDs or VCDs for things like the Fang Tian Ji.

To that I wonder, how do pole-arms fit into the structure of training in kung fu? Is there a level that someone gets to where they would normally be allowed to learn these weapons? In general I am curious what exactly constitutes the learning process for any sort of advanced weapon that is not so common.

[Djuan]

Amituofo

its usually up to the teacher/school/temple and their curriculum an relationship with the student in question.
that said, with a disciple (layman, ordained, or even self-disciplined) the order is usually, fist to stick to blade. so once you MASTER your fist, you get a stick.
once you MASTER the stick you put a blade on it (spear), once u MASTER the spear, you can learn any pole arm from there. (note: some schools teach sword after pole, then spear)

I dont know where u are in terms of hands or staff fighting, and I dont recommend spear fighting or self teaching yourself any heavy/sharp pole arms, if u are not a full blown MASTER with a plain staff, bc ONE mistake with the halberd, trident, spade, or spear, and u could lose a limb.

Now if u can fight with a pole some what , like if u can do a strong fast Yin Shou Gun with out hurting yourself at ALL, try attaching a pointed rock, or peace of card board, or dulled metal to a stick, with tape or rope, keep it basic, and turn Yin Shou Gun into a spear form where you can. This will prepare/adjust your mind for using a pole with a weapon on it. For conditioning use heavy poles.
Other than that, what you seek is generally easy to gain, should be there when you are ready, wether you have a teacher/school or not.
(Meaning, no one is allowed to learn halberd just because lol, you have to be ready and present) So keep training, I'd say, and what you seek will manifest.

Amituofo

[j.ouellet23]

Thank you for the response.
I am still fairly novice in my training, I only started with spear and sword training in March (Xingyi Quan).

My question is more for my understanding of structure and understanding the art as a whole. Things like Qianglong, Fangtian Ji, Trident etc don't seem very common place, which makes me wonder if they are in fact just that far advanced that only a few people understand them, or if they are so uncommon that people don't bother to add them to a curriculum.

[GeneChing]

Part of the issue, especially today, is that exotic pole arms just aren't that readily available. I'm not sure they ever were. There were certainly military issue pole arms, but a lot of the variations are more symbolic, often descending from religious and secular origins.

Our sponsor, MartialArtsMart, carries a limited arsenal of pole arms. There used to be a much larger selection, but frankly, they didn't sell so it wasn't worth carrying them anymore.

Sure, an exotic pole arm like a ji is more advanced than a regular spear, but not exclusively so. It's more about availability of the actual weapon.

[j.ouellet23]

Interesting to know.
Now I am curious if that's part of why some of the 18 weapons aren't studied as much anymore, simple due to availability. I also imagine that during periods where the study of martial arts wouldn't have been acceptable, its easier to hide a sword under a floorboard then it would be a guan dao or monk spade.

[GeneChing]

Plus pole arms can be a bother to lug around. For example, the group that I train with is learning Guandao right now. It's a pain bringing those to and from practice all the time. I'm grateful for my two-piece Guandao, which makes transportation so much easier. Two-piece Guandao are a relatively new invention.

[j.ouellet23]

*le sigh* a problem I know too well with spear training in Urumqi. For awhile I couldn't train with a spear because the one piece one cant be taken into a park. Now I have a two piece one and I can train again!

[David Jamieson]

Staff comes in handy as far as most principles of long weapons go. The only differences being the weighted ends that you would experience with blades on poles or hammers etc. Many staff forms found are adapted spear sets.

Just .02