Love for Kung Fu culture/cinema in Black community :)

[Djuan]

Nice video.....
share your thoughts if any. I'll share mine below....



for me personally, I was born in 1985, so my spark might come from a different perspective than the underground theaters in 70s NY, and I was into "Kung Fu" and Shaolin before Wu Tang Clan came out for sure, though I am an avid Wu-Tang Clan fan/enthusiast. I know the I watched "Kung Fu" the tv show re runs as a young kid in elementary, that along with Bruce Lee's Enter The Dragon and Shaolin vs. Lama, were my earliest introductions with Shaolin in Film/TV.

Also, I cant honestly say my interest in Kung Fu came solely from Film/TV, a lot came from growing up in the Bay Area (Oakland) and having an inherent passion for Martial Arts. Plus Oakland's Chinatown is very potent in terms of spreading true Chinese culture in a genuine way, and its always been welcoming for Blacks in Oakland, since the 60s.

Since high school I've always sought to link the cultures, historically and in present times, in any way possible. Oddly, that's another topic few (though few is better than none) like to entertain outside of Hip-Hop and Wu-Tang Clan. Runoko Rashidi is one author that has done some great work around the topic.

With TCMA with Black youth, a stigma came with it at some point, even though Wu-Tang made "Kung Fu cool in the hood" to a degree, as we got older, that was kinda lost to my generation alone, and there was a period where you'd be called a nerd or wierdo, for being immersed in Kung Fu in the hood. Still Kung Fu prevailed thru that period, and through the help of Anime (though its Japanese, shows like DBZ, and Kenichi The Mightiest Disciple pay homage to TCMA) the younger generations after mine saw a rekindling of that old school love for Kung Fu, then with Avatar/Kung Fu Panda etc, the bridge reached further into the youth.
Seeing this video on youtube was refreshing, though it reminds me of how segregated things can be in the media and in our social perceptions. So much history gets mis- taught, or just completely overlooked, especially surrounding Asia & Africa, I'm just glad a true root of Shaolin culture has survived and keeps thriving to enlighten the world and reach the youth. Everyday, or at least a few times a week, I meet new Black youth who are either training Shaolin, or fascinated about Shaolin, and thats always a great feeling.

Shaolin is for all, and though people love to say this or that about it, Black presence, to my knowledge, by historical fact, has always been in Shaolin. The paintings on the wall are always a touchy topic for certain people because with race, we are supposed to be touchy lol.....well I'm pretty open minded about it. I don't call the monks on the walls in Shaolin "Indian" because that term didnt exist at the time the murals were there, and it certainly didnt exist during the time of Buddha, like most the so called racial titles or dividing "nationalities", there were tribes albeit, and plenty of migration from Africa into all of Asia and vice versa. Some of the story wont be told in the mainstream for whatever reason, which is why I love the work Gene does, and the RZA both.
The proof is in the pudding. The story of Buddha (Shakyamuni), by his own telling, goes back at least 28 Buddhas before him, and 35,000 years before him (we never hear about this), starting some where in Nubia. Which when I compare the statues faces, the older Buddhas, and Kshatriya Kings, like Jayavarman I- VII, look like pharaohs with different crowns (google Jayavarman, and google 'Sunesret I') . or the statues of Samayak Sambo (SAMBO!) in China and Japan, who look like my Uncles lol .....I always noticed these correlations with "Africans and Asians" since a kid. Its common sense, yet one of those things we are taught to ignore, like the paintings in Shaolin, the origin of Buddha etc.....same "historians" will tell you aliens built the pyramids, and talk about Egypt like its a foreign planet (not in Africa lol) , or the noses on statues around the world were shot off or broken off for unknown reasons, or tell you humans are 8000 years old etc.....I digress.... you know the saying, "whoever wins the war gets to write the story, even if it's the villain" ....so for whatever reason at some point, someone made a strong effort to write global Black presence, (or break 'black noses') out of history lol......
not to be bias or too racial, this talk has to happen eventually anyway, and some will like it, others wont. Until people get over their so called differences, we'll never be able to put the honest picture of what is now world history as a puzzle, back together.

..and for the record I'm not into spooky stories or mysteries, I can see whats in stone plain, telling a story much more pure, and true, than what man speaks to suit a political or racial, or religious agenda. If you want to talk history about this stuff, in a respectable way, I'm open to it. Also for the record, to my knowledge, China has always shared, and honored all their roots, to the Black and beyond. A lot of things arose and blossomed within China, and a lot of things arose outside of China, and blossomed later in China, like Dhyana practice for example (Ch'an/Zen).

Since castes in "India" with Brahmanism placing the darkest people at the bottom, and probably a bit before that, I know the world has been trained to look at 'Black people' like EVERYTHING else BUT a Buddha, OR any thing noble and divine, so I understand, how even some 'Buddhist' who should have an universal view of equanimity, absolutely detest the idea of a 'Black Buddha' and the argument is race doesnt matter in enlightenment, which is true. Yet we are talking about a story of world history, and facts about it, and that ALWAYS transcends race, at least if you are an Earthling

.....like some devout Christians (even Black Christians) hate the term or idea of a "Black Jesus" , saying his race doesnt matter, but all the depictions of him are italian looking, favoring Ceasar Borgier.... even though, the region of the world and time period, that the bible takes place in was hot as @#%t!!!! everyone was probably pretty dark skinned around the time/place. common sense stuff. I digress again lol...... don't get your feathers ruffled either, we're all open minded adults, and I'm speaking from a scholarly perspective. (& remember, its meditation Novemeber, if you are ruffled, review Bodhidharma's "4 Practices", and return to this thread)
Plus you cant BS Buddha, the top principle on the Dharmachakra (8 fold path wheel) is RIGHT VIEW (knowing the truth) .....meaning you cant just turn a blind eye to fact in order suit something selfish, truth is true, as is nature is natural, and must be honored or the way becomes corrupt, and history shows this. the only way to un-corrupt the way is with brutal, and critical honesty, starting from within yourself. so if any of it (facing a certain truth or nature) makes you uncomfortable, go within and examine why before you speak.

back to Black Kung Fu Cinema lol......

Recently Films like Black Dynamite (which I loved) are cool and great, yet they as a comedy, make a novelty or parody of the Black "kung-fu man" , like Blaxploitation flix did....so I dont know how much justice they do for the culture in the long run, it almost perpetuates the "kung-fu jive style" stereotype to the uninitiated. I'll do my part as a Black practitioner and student of Shaolin to share with those around me, no matter what they look like, at all times, and I'm not ashamed of it. Kung-Fu Soul Brothas in full effect!

The stigma has to change for the better and at some point cease to be a stigma at all, so that young blacks in the "hood" dont think meditation is weird, and kung fu is nerdy! and I feel, strongly, that if they knew the role their ancestors had in meditation and martial arts in general, that would be a ground breaking start. In all respects, Kung-Fu saved my life as a youth and its still saving a lot of Black youth every day. I'd like to see that trend grow stronger.

I know there are a lot of Black Kung Fu practitioners on this forum, who may or may not speak (I'd love to hear your point of view), I had to speak on it.
the video wasn't long enough lol had to post and share my thoughts here.
Shout out and Salute Sifu Kisu!

Amituofo

[Jimbo]

Djuan:

Interesting post and some good points. Thanks.

Back in the 1970s/early ‘80s, kung fu films were not limited to the NY grindhouse theater scene. There were grindhouse theaters all over, including where I grew up in San Diego, as well as Asian-owned theaters that played subtitled versions of kung fu films in even greater variety than the downtown grindhouse theaters did.

I didn’t start MA due to movies or Bruce Lee at all. I started because of a need to defend myself, and a desire to become stronger and more self-confident. At the time I didn’t care about Bruce Lee at all, and never saw a Bruce Lee movie until 1979.

I’ve seen Black Dynamite. It was OK. It was far from the only American movie parodying the kung fu genre. Every American film I’ve seen that’s supposedly paying homage to the kung fu genre is a parody. Now Gene may say that the genre parodies itself, which would be true, but IMO it’s not the same. Directors like Sammo Hung and Yuen Woo-Ping were especially adept at parodying the genre and actually making it funny as opposed to schlocky. Movies like the Kill Bill movies, Kung Pow, etc., are parodies. Tarantino in particular seems to like KF films strictly for their ‘schlock’ factor, with a hipster-ish POV toward the genre. If you compare some of the better-made kung fu comedies to the American-made kung fu parodies, there is a world of difference.

Nowadays, I don’t hear anyone talking about kung fu, it’s all MMA, BJJ, Muay Thai, Krav Maga, etc. Even the long-established karate schools that are still around and successful are quiet. Where I grew up, Kenpo used to be king, but you don’t hear much about that anymore, either, though I’m sure it’s still around.

The first kung fu movie I ever saw was a made-for-TV movie back in 1974 called Men of the Dragon, a kind of ripoff of Enter the Dragon, about an American brother and sister secret agent team living in Hong Kong who go to an island, much like Han’s island in ETD. It co-starred Robert Ito of Quincy fame. It was filmed in Hong Kong. It wasn’t great, but I thought it was better than the Kung Fu TV series. I didn’t see another kung fu movie until 1978.

I’m of Japanese descent but comparatively dark-skinned, with more facial and body hair than the vast majority. I also lived overseas in Taiwan for a number of years, and spent some time in Hong Kong and South Korea. In some East Asian cultures, dark skin=outdoor labor=less affluent/less educated, and sometimes even less beautiful. Some women walk around with umbrellas on sunny days to keep from getting a tan. The opposite from the West, where sporting a tan means you’re more healthy and affluent enough to have the leisure time to relax and sun yourself, and being overly pale-skinned is generally viewed as unhealthy. These stereotypes aren’t politically correct, but they’re common beliefs. But even some Western cultures, such as in Mexico, when you see the “beautiful” people on TV, the vast majority have European Spanish features.

TBH, there used to be a lot more discussion around here until around 2013/2014 time period.

[Djuan]

TBH, there used to be a lot more discussion around here until around 2013/2014 time period.

Partly to blame is MMA saturation, and Quentin Tarantino, who, since the 90's has been covertly using visual alchemy to shame and degrade kung fu on the big screen lol..... (j/k tho I have banned Tarantino from my 'Kung Fu Hall' forever) it's not all his fault. Hollywood really got busy on kung fu starting around 1999 with all the computer generated/altered fight scenes. the integrity of a fight scene from 70's or 80's even early 90's Kung Fu flick was SOLID. you knew the actors/stunt men were in shape, and could do at least SOME martial art physically. Jet Li said it best, that once it became a thing to cast unrealistic actors as martial arts experts, the genre of film and thus the perception of the art itself, began to diminish, all the while MMA was building strong following. Now you have the "Xu Xiaodong generation", man oh man. The commentary against Kung Fu in some of these videos is intense.

either way I say Shaolin and TCMA for the win in the long run. Only because, naturally, its built to surpass ignorance. Kung Fu, in quantum terms, actually proves itself worthy thru time, and more endurance (literally). Also meaning, to my interpretation, and by my experience, each plateau provides a new dimension of expansion.

So possibly the level we have experienced Kung Fu in the West is only the start. The intro. Upon its exposure, the world will forge and temper stronger versions as Kung Fu adapts and grows with the times. (People are still awe struck at Bruce Lee, who, holistically, has no equal in terms of influence in the modern Martial Art world)

and in my opinion, yes opinion, the WORLD has no two greater influences to pop culture other than that of Kung Fu (the full spectrum Quan Fa, Qi Gong, Tai Chi, TCMed etc), and Hip-Hop (all elements), which is another discussion, and a worthy one. So you have major donations to the life line of the planet from Chinese Culture and Black Culture which fuse in the process to expand each other as well.
Potent medicine from the Shamans.

As far as Black Kung Fu cinema, the RZA did his "Man With the Iron FISTS" series, and a year or so ago, we had Marvels "Black Panther" who fights with some Kung Fu for sure. We'll see how it evolves in the future. I know Michael Jai White and Wesley Snipes have a nice catalog too and hopefully add some more gems to the collection. I'd love to see a film about early Shaolin, with the mixed cast Chinese and Black, sharing and building. Timeline piece with the 500 Luohan, Dueling Monks and Students, Black Vairocana, Black Damo and all. Lol that's if I ever get my hand in film. Why not, hundreds of Black drug dealer movies, or Black slave movies.... one about Black Buddhas and Warrior Monks wont hurt anyone's feelings (or would it?) .

Amituofo

[Jimbo]

As far as blacks in kung fu cinema, have you ever seen Sun Dragon (a.k.a., A Hard Way to Die), from 1979, starring Billy Chong and Carl Scott? Carl Scott is a Kenpo karate stylist who was in about three kung fu movies in Hong Kong and Taiwan, and although he was clearly not an actor, martial arts-wise he was extremely adaptable and remains one of the best performers from the West to appear in old-school kung fu films.

[Djuan]

I love kung fu (the art that I practice itself)....

in reply to your post above ^ (pardon the delayed response)

"Well I cant argue with your experience, though my experience has been complete opposite. Where as I get a warmer welcome from CMA, and catch a lot of snobism from MMA fighters, Karate TKD etc. With some CMA environments I have experienced some favoritism in schools, and judgment on "outsiders" , yet it didn't make a dent, or I didn't take it personally. However, purposely teaching someone a short hand or false style is terrible, whether they pay for it not.
and I know in the realm of standardization of traditional forms for performance, its more common with CMA to come by some shallow forms from time to time.
I still think its up to the student to keep digging if they want it. Some people bash TCMA who cant hold a finger against a real trained-to-fight TCMA fighter. I will share some videos with really sad commentary, just disrespectful. As a martial artist, we should respect the arts of all, regardless, and people dont give TCMA that respect, in my opinion, because Hollywood makes a mockery of it when they get a chance, and charlatans sell the arts for cheap where they can.
Even with all that, some core essence of Kung Fu shines thru, even with the 'tourist age' of Shaolin, there is still a pure transmission of Ch'an Buddhism and some solid martial art and qi gong practice within the temple."

Amituofo Jimbo!

[Djuan]

As far as blacks in kung fu cinema, have you ever seen Sun Dragon (a.k.a., A Hard Way to Die), from 1979, starring Billy Chong and Carl Scott? Carl Scott is a Kenpo karate stylist who was in about three kung fu movies in Hong Kong and Taiwan, and although he was clearly not an actor, martial arts-wise he was extremely adaptable and remains one of the best performers from the West to appear in old-school kung fu films.

I havent saw it yet, I will check it out though, it looks pretty awesome lol (good Kung Fu sequences too)

"The Last Dragon" from 1985 with Taimak as "Bruce Leeroy" was another one of my favorites growing up, and probably the most known "Black Kung Fu" film at least to my generation, and its still a great movie to watch lol ....the funny part is even in THAT movie, the 'cool' karate crew was "Sho'nuff" adn his bandits, and they teased Bruce Leeroy for practicing Kung Fu and embrcing Chinese culture, and it was actually more acceptable in some ways back then. they were able to portray that igorant point of view that its nerdy for young Black male to be immersed in Kung Fu, and still in the end of the movie, the Kung Fu Soul Brotha beat the Karate crew lol, making him (Bruce Leerooy) the martial arts hero and champ of Harlem (in the movie) . The tribute to Bruce Lee was nice and also the idea of searching for a master that is ultimately within. I still love that story line :P



Amituofo

[Jimbo]

in reply to your post above ^ (pardon the delayed response)

"Well I cant argue with your experience, though my experience has been complete opposite. Where as I get a warmer welcome from CMA, and catch a lot of snobism from MMA fighters, Karate TKD etc. With some CMA environments I have experienced some favoritism in schools, and judgment on "outsiders" , yet it didn't make a dent, or I didn't take it personally. However, purposely teaching someone a short hand or false style is terrible, whether they pay for it not.
and I know in the realm of standardization of traditional forms for performance, its more common with CMA to come by some shallow forms from time to time.
I still think its up to the student to keep digging if they want it. Some people bash TCMA who cant hold a finger against a real trained-to-fight TCMA fighter. I will share some videos with really sad commentary, just disrespectful. As a martial artist, we should respect the arts of all, regardless, and people dont give TCMA that respect, in my opinion, because Hollywood makes a mockery of it when they get a chance, and charlatans sell the arts for cheap where they can.
Even with all that, some core essence of Kung Fu shines thru, even with the 'tourist age' of Shaolin, there is still a pure transmission of Ch'an Buddhism and some solid martial art and qi gong practice within the temple."

Amituofo Jimbo!

I had deleted that post because I thought it would take the thread way too far OT, but thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences, Djuan.

As far as any traditional forms, for many years now I’ve had no need to ever learn any more. Instead, I’ve chosen to concentrate on and refine the aspects of the art I already have, of which forms are only a part. If anything, I’ve pared away a lot of things I’ve found are no longer essential *for me* so I can dig deeper.

[Jimbo]

I havent saw it yet, I will check it out though, it looks pretty awesome lol (good Kung Fu sequences too)

"The Last Dragon" from 1985 with Taimak as "Bruce Leeroy" was another one of my favorites growing up, and probably the most known "Black Kung Fu" film at least to my generation, and its still a great movie to watch lol ....the funny part is even in THAT movie, the 'cool' karate crew was "Sho'nuff" adn his bandits, and they teased Bruce Leeroy for practicing Kung Fu and embrcing Chinese culture, and it was actually more acceptable in some ways back then. they were able to portray that igorant point of view that its nerdy for young Black male to be immersed in Kung Fu, and still in the end of the movie, the Kung Fu Soul Brotha beat the Karate crew lol, making him (Bruce Leerooy) the martial arts hero and champ of Harlem (in the movie) . The tribute to Bruce Lee was nice and also the idea of searching for a master that is ultimately within. I still love that story line :P



Amituofo

The Last Dragon was a pretty decent movie. My personal favorite scene is the grindhouse theater scene where Bruce Leroy is watching Enter the Dragon with the raucous crowd. That environment is a fairly accurate, albeit cinematically exaggerated, representation of many grindhouse theater crowds during kung fu movies back in the day, when a particular movie elicited dramatic responses from the crowd. I cannot imagine seeing that kind of crowd response in a movie theater ever again.

As for Sun Dragon, it has the worst English dub job of probably any kung fu movie, as well as several anachronisms during the movie, but those are part of what gives it its charm. Although it’s billed as being filmed mostly in Arizona, and indeed, it was partly filmed there, but much of it was actually filmed in Taiwan, even some of the ‘Arizona’ scenes.

[GeneChing]

...just kidding. KIDDING! Don't be a snowflake anyone. Actually, I think the black community has done so much to forward Kung Fu, sometimes even more than the Chinese community. And it's always nice to see one of our members mentioned, right?

Nice little vid, although I'm not sure I'd characterize Jim Kelly as a Blaxploitation star prior to Enter the Dragon. Searching IMDB, I see he was in one prior film - Melinda (1972) - which looks like a blaxploitation flick but I've never seen it and it doesn't look like he was the lead. Not sure that counts.

Some of the story wont be told in the mainstream for whatever reason, which is why I love the work Gene does, and the RZA both.

Thanks for the shout out, Djuan. One of these days, we really must meet face-to-face - East Bay Massive! If you're ever in Fremont during the work week, give me a holla.

[Jimbo]

Djuan,
Here is another clip, this time from Kung Fu Executioner (1981), which was Carl Scott’s second movie with Billy Chong, and AFAIK was Carl Scott’s last movie. His role in this movie was smaller than in Sun Dragon, in spite of the opening credits sequence. It was filmed in Taiwan.

[Djuan]

Heres a short clip of Michael Jai White sharing his perspective on the Black Martial Art experience in America. Thought his take on it was valid, and correlates to the time of the post war influx of East Asian culture and the Civil Rights movement. A lot of people in the ghetto coming from fighting for this country, then landing home in the U.S. finding the country was still fighting within itself and Black rights we're still largely skim to none, so they could relate to thee philosophy of Kung Fu (other arts as well), and could relate to the Martial Art code expressed in most of the films, which usually highlighted overcoming oppression or some adverse force, good over evil, brotherhood and loyalty, respect and endurance, fellowship and humanity, etc....the Kung Fu, Warriors on the screen always fought for what was right and did so in a straight forward, and brutal way, which was both understandable and respectable.

In my opinion, in hindsight, Shaolin movies spoke to all "ghettos" and "ghetto people" (the oppressed, or 'strugglers') around the world and it reflects in how the culture spread so quickly in the 80s and 90s. The Black experience in America at the time, was and still is intimately relatable to people around the world and a lot of people gravitated to the genre of film for the same reason, being attracted to the noble principles presented as representing the heart of a "Kung Fu Fighter" ..

Amituofo

[Djuan]

Thanks for the shout out, Djuan. One of these days, we really must meet face-to-face - East Bay Massive! If you're ever in Fremont during the work week, give me a holla.

Most certainly! the I Soon Come! I am making it happen!

[Djuan]

One of the greatest Martial Arts gatherings in the west in history, and I remember watching this on tv and taping it with VHS lol, I was peaking in my training as a teen and this was right on time, with Blade following. was a cool moment to be young black and doing kung fu.

Highlights I remember most:

Shaolin gets the honors in leading the show Shaolin Origins which I loved because Wesley Snipes doesn't practice Shaolin, or TCMA to my knowledge, yet he had sense enough to give respect where its due, in great fashion (to my taste) with Shi Yang Ming leading, and Wu Tang paying in the background.

Showcasing Masters from ALL races and Arts from all around the world, not just Black MAists, because Wesley is Black, nope, he showed everyone equal love, Black,Fiipino,White,Chinese,Japanese,Korean,Latino everybody, men, women, kids , elders, etc.

Seeing Pan Qing Fu perform

First time seeing Bruce Lee's famous "Be water my friend" / "Express oneself" interview.

Doug E Fresh and KRS-1 performances, blending classic hip hop with the Martial Arts so elegantly in front of all the masters, was a classic moment in the culture.

to name a few, this was a GREAT tribute to martial arts in my eyes as a kid, and taught me something about styles and masters I otherwise would not have heard of.



Another cool fact is that, the broadcast introduced me , visually, to some masters I only had imagined what they were like, from reading about them in KFTC magazine
watch this thing if you haven't seen it, it's still relevant, and a moment to celebrate.
Amituofo!

[Djuan]

looks like a lot of people wanted to see the Last Dragon in the first video lol

Amituofo