weed and meditation

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

cbishop: Of course you get a "Be well", it is my sincere wish for ALL my brothers and sisters.. forgive what appears to be my frustration with you, it is more generally aimed at folks that take this remarkable gift of physical existence and mangle it with the excesses of uncontrolled desires.. you just happened to post at a time when i was dealing with similar frustrations related to people very close to me.. Humble apologies.. and,

BE WELL...

[sk8fool]

tea of cherry bark. works like a charm. and witha bit of honey it's tasty too.

i think it's funny though that anyone would be concerned about harm
to the lungs considering the state of our breatheable air in big cities.

thanks although I wasnt refering to coughs, i meant all the resign that's probably built up in my lungs. I stoped smoking 3 years ago and am working towards making my body healthier

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi cbishop,

Anti-depressants, antibiotics and insulin are used for the purpose of treating specific diseases and are prescribed by competent physicians who have extensive training in treating the diseases for which they are prescribed. They address specific chemical imbalances that are characteristic of specific diseases. Doctors do not self-medicate due to the risk of excessive use which leads to addiction!

Many individuals use alcohol and drugs to self-medicate due to mental disorders. These substances numb the brain which makes the disorder more manageable, but does not resolve the underlying disorder! Alcohol and illegal drugs do not address specific illnesses; they are used to avoid the realities of life that could be ameliorated through more beneficial and productive means! Frequently their use devolves into addiction with attending severe physical, psychological, social and economic consequences, anti-depressants, antibiotics and insulin do not!

[cbishop]

scott, i can't argue with that. apparantly, you know it all already.
(sounds like you learned it from commercials and public service announcements)

sk8fool, cherry bark, while often used when a cough is present
is actually commonly used in tcm as an expectorant. it will loosen whatever
is sticking to your lungs and CAUSE you to cough it up.

[herb ox]

Pardon me, bredren, but I have to disagree with Scott...

Contrary to his statement: "prescribed by competent physicians who have extensive training in treating the diseases for which they are prescribed" - do you realize that the majority of MDs make prescription decisions based upon advertising and promotional products they have received from the pharmaceutical companies?

"Doctors do not self-medicate due to the risk of excessive use which leads to addiction!" - again, having known many MD's, I can tell you with confidence that many doctors do indeed self-medicate. Some take it to the point of disruptive addiction, while others manage to keep it well hidden from collegues and the public. But if you dig a little deeper, you'll probably find the entire medical system is fraught with drug problems.

"Alcohol and illegal drugs do not address specific illnesses; they are used to avoid the realities of life that could be ameliorated through more beneficial and productive means! "

Okay, first of all, let's briefly address the illegality of cannabis. Would you feel the same way had it not been prohibited & demonized by Henry Anslinger in order to help the DuPont family to better compete against hemp? Everyone at the time knew nylon couldn't stand up against the wonderous hemp... but the almighty dollar speaks in America - nobody would stand for a ban on hemp since it was so useful, so instead Anslinger turned his focus on the psychoactive effects of the herb to turn the public against it.

"Frequently their use devolves into addiction with attending severe physical, psychological, social and economic consequences, anti-depressants, antibiotics and insulin do not!"

While I agree that use may devolve into addictive, destructive behavior, I must disagree that anti-depressants do not - numerous studies have shown undesirable effects of many psychopharmaceuticals - deeper depression, anxiety, delirium and paranoia to the point of murder and suicide.

Sorry, but you'll never convince me that the chemical brewings of mere mortals are always superior to the natural remedies created by the hand of the Almighty.

peace

herb ox

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi cbishop,

The natural response of many individuals when they are unable to address the actual argument is to reduce the discussion to the “Attack the Man” fallacy and insults. No one is required to agree with anyone here, but there is no need to be snide!

My knowledge comes from over 20 years of nursing, much of it treating acute psychiatric disease and dementia. I am also the only member of my family not dealing with psychiatric or addiction issues.

To think that cherry bark used as an expectorant completely clears the lungs of foreign material is inaccurate and dangerous. It is most likely preferable to doing nothing at all, however to believe and promote that it counteracts the negative effects of inhaling and holding smoke in the lungs is irresponsible rationalization!

Facts are hard but we must all live with them!

Hi herb ox,

Many Doctors do make medication treatment decisions based upon the “clinical results” of medications, and these “clinical results” are communicated through pamphlets that can be considered advertisements. Many scientific studies are flawed as well. Many times pharmaceutical companies alter their findings in order to make money! The only thing this teaches us is, “Buyer Beware”!!! Blind faith in ones doctor or pharmaceutical companies is clearly foolish!

Doctors also prescribe medications based upon their experience with what actually works, what is cheapest for their patient, and what is easily accessible. When results are not apparent they will try other treatments. Every person reacts differently to medications. Something that works for one patient may not be effective for another.

MOST medications do what they are advertised to do. They prolong life and/or make it more livable for those with debilitating diseases. They provide chemicals that the body is unable to produce. Pharmaceuticals have been more successful in the last 200 years than the previous 5,000-10,000 years of herbal remedies have as demonstrated by the curing and/or amelioration of diseases, increasing life expectancy, and the increased general health of people.

As with every field of endeavor in life there are those who are competent and those who are quacks. Some doctors prescribe medications for themselves, many of them are psychiatrists. It is however, considered unethical. These ethical principles are generally STANDARDS of behavior and not laws. Everyone has the right to make foolish decisions and this does not just apply to marijuana users, but to doctors as well!

Your argument in response to my comments concerning the lack of medical benefits of alcohol and illegal drugs did not address my point. You diverted the focus to a political issue. Alcohol and illegal drugs are ingested for entertainment purposes, to self-medicate against an individual’s inability to deal with the realities of life and rarely for introspective purposes. Two of these purposes can be relatively harmless if exercised responsibly and in moderations, the other leads to increased psychiatric, social, and economic distress, thus increasing ones inability to deal with life’s realities and does not solve the problem!! It makes life worse by numbing ones ability too actually address the issue and determine an effective resolution!

I am unconcerned here with the political issues surrounding illegal drugs. I am addressing medical and psychiatric medications and comparing the consequences of their use with that of illegal drugs.

Anti-depressants are not addictive substances and rarely involve the negative effects you mention! They have varying levels of efficacy based upon the individual’s body chemistry and psychiatric diagnosis. We live in a society where many people want a simple answer to life’s problems and they believe that taking a pill will solve everything! Many others want something that works NOW being primarily concerned with paying a mortgage and raising their children. They want to be functional and while they might be amendable to counseling they realize that 10 or more years of therapy will not help them TODAY!!

All medications have side-effects and I will grant that in order to make money many pharmaceuticals play them down. We live in an imperfect world!! However, in the media all one hears about are the problems with medications. The media rarely or never cite the many MORE lives improved. If one specific medication is found to have negative side effects for an individual there are many other medications available. When prescribing psychiatric medication there is no way to know for certain which one will work best for an individual. There is a period of trial and error involved when determining the best medication to use. All medications have risks, but so does everything else in life. 50,000 people die every year in automobile accidents, more than from psychiatric medications! Shall we outlaw the car? When citing the severe behavior disturbances of those on Anti-depressants critics tend to ignore the underlying psychiatric problems and the therapeutic process involved that most likely contributed to the aberrant behavior as much or more than the medication.

It is not my intention to convince anyone to use or not use pharmaceutical medications. I am addressing a specific view held by those who advocate illegal drug use, in this case marijuana. I don’t care who uses it or not. But I do feel it necessary to address poor arguments made to rationalize its use and false claims of its benefits. I use herbals and supplements myself. I agree natural means are preferable to artificial means of treatment. I am unconcerned what you or anyone else uses. I personally am not a fan of psychiatric medication either. However, in extreme cases of psychosis they are absolutely necessary! Most individuals have no experience with acute psychosis. I have!! I have intervened in suicide attempts, treated acute psychotic episodes, and cleaned up after and those who have: slit their throats, cut themselves, hung themselves, slammed their heads in doors, etc!! I have had patients who have tried to eat themselves, eat others and who have heard voices telling them to do other more heinous and hideous things! Ask a schizophrenic or psychotic person who cannot function otherwise whether they prefer to be on pharmaceuticals or not!

As for the rest of us, the next time you get gangrene or tuberculosis go ahead and try herbs. If you live long enough to see they are ineffective then you will be happy to have pharmaceuticals to fall back on!

[hazhardy]

so, had a doob yesterday,, same thing,, and i agree with whoever/s said that my chi was becoming unblocked,,very true,, i had so much energy in my sphere that i felt i could send it through some one just like Ken Masters, haha.
and this time the room wasn't spinning as much, so i could feel this sh!t flowing.
once a week seems aight right now,,,,,,feels nice you know?
cool.
take it easy, and stop squabbling like girls,, y'all too intelligent for dat sh!t.
hza

[Repulsive Monkey]

From a Chinese Medicine perspective it is well known that Hash can be crippling for the body.
It does not give you extra Qi just because you experienced a head and body rush that was the THC in the hash nitwit.

Hash, damages the kidneys by draining it and dissipating Jing, and it totally messes up the Liver by causing qi to move in an unco-ordinated manner and then leaves you with Qi stagnation the next day not to mention it effects the Hun of the Liver massively.

If you want to bong out in your leisure time, fair enough, but don't be an idiot and think it will enhance any internal cultivation, because it will do the exact opposite, FACT!

[cbishop]

in my first post, i mentioned passing a doob to an IMA.
not only is he a well known teacher, he's also one of the most well
known and respected of OMDs in the United States. i'm not an
omd, but those who i have spoken to on the subject assure me
that chinese medicine will NEVER say.. "this or this IS bad for the body
or for this organ or that" that's not how chinese medicine works.
always eastern medicine looks at the body as a whole, and what's
good for the goose is not always good for the gander.

i won't post the name of this doctor for the sake of his privacy and
the persecution that sort of thing tends to cause. if you want to question
this from an oriental medicine standpoint, you have only to visit an OMD
for yourself.

in fact concerning the cherry bark that i recommended for expectorant, though
it is used in tcm, this is not the way an OMD would diagnose or prescribe.
also, i never said that it would remove all the resins from the lungs.
you won't find that statement in my post. it will cause the resins to break
away, and you will cough most of it up.

scott, i know alot of "nurses". none of them seem to know quite as much
as you do about the dangers of smoking pot. i just don't really see the point
in arguing with someone who seems to know so much and yet provide no
evidence of that knowledge in the form of proof. you talk about the dangers
as if they're so well known, yet provide no link to studies by scientists which
i expect that you should have access to considering your occupation.

do you know that your brain produces cannabinoids???
do you know that not everyone's brain produces enough???
what's a guy to do if his brain produces less than the optimal amount???
(suffer because you don't like the smell of pot???)
not a chance!

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicl...oid_study.html

[Repulsive Monkey]

Im sorry but Hash most certainly does have effects more notably on certain organ functions than on others because of the functionality of the qi with that organ.
It's pretty obvious and many TCM practitioners will state that, because that IS how the thought in Chinese medicine goes.
It looks at the parts that go to make up the whole body. Notice how I mention the organs and then directly state their function that is affected by it, hence Jing is drained from the Kidney, and Qi stagnation is effected via the Liver.
I didn't even mention about the Shen becoming over excited via the heart blood!!

The fact of the matter is that from a TCM perspective there are many influencing factors that seem to have a specific effect upon single organs. However this particualr upset then has , quite obviously and naturally, and effect upon the whole of the body. Imbalance has to have its inception and root somewhere, wouldn't you agree??

I know this may sound precocious, and I certainly don't want to come across this way, but I fully agree with you when you say "if you want to question
this from an oriental medicine standpoint, you have only to visit an OMD
for yourself." Why? Because I am one.

[cbishop]

"Imbalance has to have its inception and root somewhere, wouldn't you agree??"

absolutely. so, if i place 5grams on one side of the scale, will it fall? or
will it balance???

depends what's on the other side. right?

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi cbishop,

I don’t care to post evidence for my view! Those who wish do believe as they wish to believe will do so regardless of any evidence that contradicts their view! You have your view and you are welcome to it! You are the one to reap the benefits as you perceive them and the detriments as they will be!

If and when you suffer from irreparable alteration of brain function, lowered motivation, lung disease and the attending social, emotional and economic consequences that will be your reward for your choices! You may also enjoy the karmic consequences, or not, for those whom you have convinced to follow your ill-informed views. I don’t care!! You are responsible for yourself and it is not my job to tell you what to do!

In the psychiatric profession there is a diagnosis for those who have suffered irreparable brain chemistry alteration due to illegal drug use including marijuana, it is called “organic brain syndrome”!! I have treated many individuals who suffer permanent negative effects due to actions that coincide with those you seem to be encouraging. I have not met one that is glad they fried their brain!

No, you did not say that cherry bark removes ALL the tars and I did not say that you did! You offered cherry bark as a remedy to ameliorate the negative affects of tars on the lungs! I responded that this was an inadequate solution as it does not clear the lungs of ALL the tars and further, it does not undo any damage to the tissues at all! I have a better remedy than yours! DON’T SMOKE!!!! If one does not smoke there is no reason to pursue half A$$ed methods of undoing or ameliorating the damage! It doesn’t take an intellectual giant to figure that out! Even a person with impaired judgment secondary to marijuana usage should be able to understand it!

It is healthier to participate in activities with fewer negative consequences and greater beneficial effects, such as Qi Gung and aerobic activity. Aerobic activity releases endorphins into the system that act as a “REAL” natural mood elevator! But I am sure you won't believe me because I haven’t posted links to scientific articles demonstrating this truth! Aerobic activity will “TRULY” benefit the lungs and cardio system and consequently Chi flow. You won't run the risk of contracting emphysema and COPD which are horrible ways to die and do nothing for ones Chi flow! You also won't have to use cherry bark in a futile attempt to undo the damage gained by inhaling and holding smoke in your lungs. Chi flow will TRULY benefit and your reasoning abilities will improve allowing you to avoid the negative consequences acquired through foolishness and unhealthy rationalization!

So you do not know any well informed nurses or nurses with my expertise! Big deal!! I know a lot of people and none of them have been to France. Therefore, France does not exist, using your rationalization!

[hazhardy]

quit moaning nerds, and smoke that sh!t.

[cbishop]

ok, if you insist.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

quit moaning nerds, and smoke that sh!t.

Faced with responsible commentary, that response indicates too much damage done already.. Well-meaning people offer reasoned advice that can improve your health and MA experience, pay attention or pay the price.. The illusion of enhancement is a product of the drug's mind-altering attributes, your addiction to the pleasurable sensations will be rationalized as favorable to justify continued use of substances that will eventually damage your body.. you must decide if the illusion is preferable to good health.. good health will benefit you much more than an illusion that masks the damage it does..

Be well..