weed and meditation

[hazhardy]

that's some pretty sound sh!t there tai chi bob..
but you can understand why i said it, coz of all the nerds driftinf off into their world of science, ready to write every account possible on a forum which expects a paragraph max. answer....
im trying to reduce to once a week,,, but the feeling of my chi accelerating around me feels good.
cool.
take it easy
hza

[cbishop]

bob, i've smoked for 15 years now. during that time i've wrestled, played judo,
hung ga, taiji, and bagua. along the way i've managed to hold down regular
jobs, and acquire a bachelor degree. i'm happily married, with two happy
children. i own property and am building a home. i don't sit on my @ss all day
and stone out watching tv. i'm 30 years old, and still look like 18.

i don't seem to suffer from any of the problems that you or others have pointed
out. i haven't become retarded and my martial arts progress has been outstanding.
anyone who wishes to test the presumption that smoking weed hinders martial
development is welcomed to come and meet me. i post under my
real name. i've indicated my city as okc. i can be found weeknights at the loft
above the bioenergy center on n classen blvd. i'll also be competing again next
year at taiji legacy if you'd like to do it in a more public place.

to wit..
we have a "nurse" telling us "i'm a nurse, don't smoke weed".
(no referal to sources, no evidence of medical study, and an obvious
issue with dementia in the family and workplace. how do you stay sane?)

we have an OMD telling us "it harms the chi"
(i'm actually mildly interested. what school did you study at please?)

we have taiji bob saying "it's a sacrement. don't smoke too much"
(which i agree with. the issue is, who gets to decide what is too much? YOU???)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

cbishop: First, i don't decide how much is "too much" for anyone but myself.. i figure your bodies will let you know.. Second, related to the first, if your body is healthy (or, how much better could it have been) and you are making informed choices, i emphatically support your right to choose.. Third, my post was only intended give people pause to think, not as a casting of stones.. i am genuinely concerned about peoples well-being..

Now, to give you some insight.. my first herb experience was in 1964.. fast-forward to 1986.. insight and realization leads me to re-evaluate effects on my health and psyche.. 1986 to present, respect for its power to hurt and help and conservative concientious utilization.. respect it and it respects you.. abuse it and likewise, it will abuse you..

Be well, Be healthy..

[cbishop]

thanks bob. i respect that.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi cbishop,

I never said don’t smoke marijuana. I have discussed the negative consequences and encouraged healthier behavior. I have also stated that every person reacts differently to medications and this applies to illegal drugs as well. I believe individuals should make informed decisions understanding the possible negative side effects of their actions and behaviors. This is not a seminar; it is not my responsibility to provide you with medical studies that prove my view. They are well established and freely available from numerous sources. Look it up yourself!! You have a computer!!

Exceptions seem to occur with nearly every rule. Perhaps you are lucky and have inherited good genes; perhaps you will experience negative consequences in the next 10, 20, 30 or 40 years. No one will know until it occurs. Experience tells me that under even the most moderate circumstances you will regret your activities if you begin to experience permanent negative consequences. I can conceivably play Russian Roulette everyday for years and never end up shooting myself. I could then freely make comments about how safe I have found it to be and that all evidence to the contrary is not proven. But when the bullet finally enters my brain I will discover how foolish my attitude and behavior was and it will be too late! If I never play Russian Roulette I never need be concerned with the negative consequences!

Your actions don’t just affect yourself; they affect your family and others. An illness secondary to your marijuana usage effects your wife and children’s future financial security, their peace of mind and their safety if in an altered mental state you inadvertently hurt them or in an emergency fail to render necessary care that is needed. That is not my business, but it IS yours!!

I am responding to the ill-informed attitude that there is a free lunch with marijuana usage. All actions and behaviors have consequences. What exactly they will be we won’t know until they occur. It is likely we will experience unintended and unanticipated consequences.

Smoking of any kind affects the lungs negatively. While you claim no ill effects from your marijuana use, it is unlikely you are able to detect any mental or physical deterioration since you don’t know what to compare it too. If you are operating at 80% capability you won’t know it unless you have 100% capability to compare it too! We don’t know your level of usage and as with anything in life the more frequent the use the more likely the negative effects. For some individuals the negative effects do not arise for 40 or 50 years when addressing diseases like emphysema and COPD while subtle brain dysfunction can begin immediately and continue undiagnosed or perceived for many years. I have watched patients slowly deteriorate from emphysema and COPD many times. These diseases are directly attributed to smoking. Mental deterioration secondary to marijuana usage most frequently manifests itself as low motivation, inability to focus on or complete tasks and depression.

I do not have a family history of dementia; I have a long work history dealing with psychiatric and dementia patients. My family members have problems with addictive behaviors! I stay sane by exercising, meditating and introspection! These activities have no risk of physical or psychological negative side effects. I do not use artificial substances to deal with any of life’s stresses. I believe it is healthiest to address personal issues directly and work through them thereby resolving them PERMANENTLY!! Artificial substances merely treat the symptom not the cause. Consequently the symptoms continue to plague the individual influencing them to continue the use of artificial substances and increasing the opportunity for negative consequences to manifest!

Hi hazhardy,

If your inability to concentrate does not allow you finish reading my looooooong comments, don’t feel like you need to do so. They are not really addressed to you! But I do appreciate your sense of humor!!

[herb ox]

Go get 'em Scott!

Ya know, it's funny, whenever a marijuana thread is started, it goes on for months and garners nearly as much response as the "talk to the got qi girls" threads and the Shaolin-Do bashing threads!

In actuality Scott, I agree with 95% of your statements. The point I was trying to make was the blanket statement of "illegal drugs and alcohol". This is why I pointed out the illegality of the herb is not legit. I feel many of the same issues you have noted can come about from overconsumption of hamburgers, frenchfries and dr. pepper. Sounds silly, right? But if you are what you eat, and what you eat affects your internal chemistry, then fast food and candy are drugs as well and can have deleterious effects over your lifetime.

Furthermore, marijuana is in a class of it's own. First of all, it is a plant, naturally occurring and used since ancient times for both medicinal and meditative effects. Why all the fuss now? Marijuana will affect your qi FAR LESS than heroin, methamphetamine, prescription pain killers, sleeping pills, ecstacy, etc...

Secondly, marijuana is far safer (barring the effects of smoking) than most other prescription drugs. The oral LD50 (killing 50% of subjects) of THC in laboratory rats was found to be in excess of 600 mg/kg (Meyers, 1992)- in human terms, we'd have to eat nearly 2 lbs of concentrated THC to reach the same blood concentrations (given the average THC concentration in smoked plant material of 1% to 0.15%, one would have to smoke over 200 lbs in a single 'session' to acheive similar results) . By comparison, the LD50 for Xanax is about 350 mg/kg.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is NOT to class marijuana with the other, more harmful drugs that are also illegal and highly processed. Cannabis is least processed of the illegal drugs - simply dried and trimmed to perfection. Don't be so quick to pass judgement on the herb. Yes, it has negative effects. But it also has many positive effects. It's a unique herb to say the least (although highly stigmatized from anti-drug campaigns, etc), and it really has NOT been given the proper research it deserves, and the research that has been done is biased in one direction or another - pharmaceutical companies only publish research that'll generate more money for them, and the stoners try to slant the research to make the herb look completely harmless. Neither side is telling the whole truth. You have to find it for yourself, and then, the truth is unique to your experience.

'nuff said.

peace
herb ox
(bubbling sounds in the background)

Reference: Meyers, F.H. (1992), Pharmacology of Marijuana: Just Another Sedative. Presented at The Drug Policy Foundation's CME Seminar, Washington, D.C. November 13, 1992

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi herb ox,

I find nothing to argue with in your comments. Everything you have stated is true and accurate to the best of my understanding as well! Your thoughts are well articulated. As i have tried to indicate, I am not against marijuana usage per se! I believe individuals should make informed decisions by understanding the possible ramifications of their decisions. Any substance can be used to excess, including hamburgers and french fries. Even water taken to excess will kill you. As long as an individual understands the consequences of their behaviors and is willing to accept them when they occur I have nothing to comment about!

I am only attempting to communicate that marijuana usage is not all rainbows and marshmellows. There can be very serious, unanticipated and permanent consequences.

It is probably fair to say most people survive marijuana usage relatively unscathed. Most alcohol imbibers are the same! However, the potential for negative consequences increases with intemperate and long term usage.

[cbishop]

i got no comment on the study i posted a link to.
any thoughts?

[hazhardy]

Hi hazhardy,

If your inability to concentrate does not allow you finish reading my looooooong comments, don’t feel like you need to do so. They are not really addressed to you! But I do appreciate your sense of humor!!

haha, cheers,,,yeah i scan through see..
rad.
hza

oh yeah , just thought i'd pick up on this : -


tai chi bob maestro said:
respect it and it respects you.. abuse it and likewise, it will abuse you..
and that is a fcuking sound piece of advice....which i am following.
nice,,
take care
hza

[PangQuan]

like women...

[PangQuan]

and kung fu...

[TaiChiBob]

Like life itself.. we get out of it what we put into it..

[Wong Ying Home]

I had a disucssion with a naturopathic doctor, an Md and a Dr of TCM, re this subject once.

The following is a synopsis:

TCM and naturopath - Hash weed ect all force the bai hui crown point open, which is deemed as the physical interface between the physical self and spiritual self.long term this not only leaves one open to allsorts of potential spiritual threat, but one can longer close it open it and conduct astral travel

MD - long term abuse can lead to many people experiencing mental illness and psychosis, depression etc.

they all agreed this could be considered the same problem described in different terms.

having experimented in my youth a with a wide range of drugs, inc psychoactive...mushrooms, lsd, mescaline, weed etc.

I ditched them all and have found far better and long term benefits by having practiced under expereinced teachers of chi gung, etc.

Have seen to many old associates..still making the same mistake and ending completly f&&ck*d up

Lsd etc are like taking the elevator to to the top, quick and fast...but you dont know how you got there, or what it is your seeing.

Natural path is the stair case and you learn the benefits, lesson and experince of the journey, so when you do reach the top you are strong enough in both mid and body to understand what is at the top.

Just my 2cents

[fa_jing]

smoking pot makes you lose your keys. Do you want to spend 30 minutes a day every day looking for your keys?

[PangQuan]

what were we talking about?