BJJ and cops (no, BJJ is not better than KF, etc etc etc..., but it's a cool article

[Ryu]

they're stealing my little "self-defense" program
:(
foiled again. :D

http://www.defendu.com/10_bjj_moves.htm




"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[David]

Nice article. I'm a bit concerned that people are getting "just enough of this training" and maybe not understanding what they're doing. A "carotid restraint" continued into unconsciousness by a scared practitioner waiting for re-inforcements would soon result in brain damage or death.

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

[Fish of Fury]

great link Ryu.
now i finally know what the heck you evil grappling people are talking about :)
seriously though, for a non grappling guy it's clarified a lot,thanks

__________________________________________________ _________________________ "I'm just trying to lull you into a genuine sense of security!"

[scotty1]

I don't know much about grappling and don't have time to study so things like that make me a little better prepared I think. :)

[Badger]

Cool article.
So BJJ is better than Kungfu. ;)


Badger

Support The Economy. Buy A Gun.

[LEGEND]

David...u hold it more than 3 mins after the guy passes out then u worry!

A

[shaolinboxer]

Our dojo is having a fundraiser and is giving away a video called "Aikido Techniques for Police" when you make a donation. The techniques are intersting, particularly (IMO) the application of sankyo againt passive resistance.

This is something I had never considered...the need to move or control some when the simply lie down and go limp in protest.

Here is a description:

Take the person's hand as if your were going to shake hands with them, standing on the same side of their body as the hand you are "shaking".

Walk in a circle around their head (while holding their hand) winding up facing the direction their head is pointing on the far side of their body.

Kneel down, take thier wrist (really the top of their plam just beyond the wrist) with your other hand and lift their elbow from the palm straight up to get them to stand up.

Ofcourse, an wrist control can be resisted by simply allowing you arm to break.

[Crimson Phoenix]

That was great, now I KNOW what the hell they're talking about in, their BJJ mumbo jumbo :D

[Satanachia]

Okay this is my first post so go easy on me.

I havn't been training that that long, but we do have some grappling in our style which look alot like this. But i noticed a few differences and things i would prefer with some of the techniques. Of course, knees, elbows, eye gouges and groin strikes will always be a problem.

But technique number seven seems (The Open Guard)seems to just scream "open yourself up for groin strike". Just look at the pic:


That raised fist is only going one place. Ironically, since he can't hit the first head, so he should strike for the other :)

Now i realise there are limited things you can do while someones on top of you, but from this position, you can add the incentive of pain by interlocking your feet behind the attackers back, and squezing your legs/knees together in an effort to crush the floating ribs. Its not comfortable.

We also train number 10. alot. The rear carotoid restraint. But we also use a slightly different approach to the one in the pic.


Except instead of shrugging shoulders up(which would raise your center of gravity, and makes it easier for the person, if they're strong enough, to bend down and throw you forward over themselves), we would place the opposite hand behind the persons head and use it in conjuction, to push the head forward over the crook of the arm, while choking with the first arm, which can give you huge ammounts of leverage IF NEED BE.
The hand of the choking arm, rests in the crook of your other arms elbow, giving even more leverage and support if needed.
The addition of kicking out the knee of the guy while he's in this position also stops any threat of him throwing you over forward.

Well that it now, its done. My first post. Hope it went okay... :D

[Kevin73]

Working as a deputy in corrections, it was interesting to read. A couple things I noticed though that should be highlighted from the article. 1) They said that it was good for holding the bad guy until more help arrived. Key thing there out on the street you don't have back up to arrive and you will need to learn either more breaks, or ending moves because you can't hold him there all night. 2) I noticed that they changed their statistic from their old "over 90% of fights go to the ground" to 65 to 85%. Again, only about 1/4 of the fights I've seen have gone to the ground accidently meaning they clinch and since neither has good stance they trip and fall. I would say that this stat applies more to where one person is trying to take it to the ground. I know that sounds stupid but I think it is important to realize that most don't just end up on the ground when people want to stay up, their stats are based on LEO and DOC stats of officers purposely trying to take a subject down for cuffing in which case most will go down if you haven't trained for a takedown.

I'm not dogging grappling, I think it is a very important tool to have, but like any tool one needs to know when and where to use it and what it's advantages and disadvantages are (just like for striking too).

"God gave you a brain, and it annoys Him greatly when you choose not to use it."

[Merryprankster]

Satanachia,

Actually, locking your legs around your opponent and squeezing generally causes neither that much pain to your victim, nor is it particularly effective as a "submission," type hold. Most of us really can't apply that much pressure for a long enough time to get anywhere. It is VERY useful as control, however. BJJ'ers call it "closed guard."

The "open guard" position you are seeing is a poor photo. First, there are many open guard positions. Secondly, what you cannot see in that photo is that the bottom man's knees are braced against his assailant's chest, with his thighs squeezed together. This serves to increase the distance to his groin, and block the attackers ability to move forward, reducing the effectiveness of the strike since the attacker has to "reach". The thighs together offers protection against the strike as well. All of this, combined with the angle of the bottom man's hips, which are off the ground, make it hard for the strike to reach the groin.

The hips of the ground also means that he can move his hips up or down, or sideways, to slip and fade the groin strike as necessary.

Lastly, and this is just an FYI, not trying to be snooty, there are a ton of things, many, many sweeps and submissions, to be done from the guard position. Used properly it is a great weapon, and in my opinion, vital to your ability to get up off the ground safely and quickly in a violent encounter.

[Satanachia]

MerryPrankster...

I can assure you, a lock around the kidneys and squeezing when done correctly is quite, how should i put it, painful/uncomfortable.
But i of course realize your not going to win a fight, or probably get a submission from it in a fight.
Its not a big technique as such, more so as a way of suddenly inflicting alot of discomfort on someone who's in that position of you while you move onto something else. Well that's how we do that kind of thing anyway, i've got absolutely no idea about BJJ, we've just used "similar" tecniques in some of our grappling and wrestling.

As for the number of techniques available from the guard position, i plead ignorance. I don't do BJJ, and have absolutely no idea what the guard position even is. All my comments come from similar things, from different styles, and no doubt with varyingly different names to said moves. :)

And i still reckon i could get a groin strike in ;)

[Water Dragon]

If I were to learn one open guard, it would have to be the spider guard.

Most actions of men can be explained by observing a pack of dogs. Not wild dogs, just neighborhood dogs who all scurry under the fence on the same night and set off together to reclaim a glimmer of the glory their species possessed before domestication.

[Sharky]

ok then, he could get a good few punches to the stomach if not the groin then eh?

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[jimmy23]

Satanachia, when you get conditioned that squeeze wont bug you too much, when we roll guys try it a lot and at worst its an irritation


"You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting"
Spinning Backfist