practical drills

[dzu]

IMO none of the joints should ever be 'locked' or fully extended. Locking a joint is akin to tensing a muscle. Both will impede the transfer of force to and from the ground. When a joint is fully extended, it must retract again to re-open the path. Likewise, when a muscle is tensed, it must be relaxed again begore it can contract appropriately. IMO, the range of motion should be to near full extension and the extending limb should be relaxed and supple. The power should always be there are a moment's notice if the body is aligned properly, the intention to use it is there, and the timing and positioning are advantageous.

Long power is not dependent upon the elbow being locked out. Long power (and short power) is determined by the intention driving the body's alignment. Long power and short power are not exclusive to only certain physical postures.

I practice with both light contact and medium contact, usually to the sternum/torso and legs. Contact to the face, head, joints, and throat is usually very light (placing the hand) followed by a little pressure so my partner is aware of the opening.

Dzu

[Bessho]

Originally posted by Abstract
...is sifu gonna have those workshops?

hello mun hung - what kind of workshops?

[azwingchun]

I completely agree with your comments, though I would also like to add something to that as far as the mechanics of the arm. You can test this for yourself, if you extend the arm fully the tendons and muscles have a natural pull back which doesn't allow for maximum release of power, just maximum reach. In fact there is a slight natural withdrawl of the energy. Just my opinion though, and also from art to art that I have trained in, this is also 1 of the main reasons not to extend as well as the ones you mentioned as well as other taught to me. Of course as mentioned, there are many ways to punch and many seem to vary from each other....so this isn't to say my way is the only way.

[rubthebuddha]

the idea, as i understand it so far, is that locking the elbow provides the fullest possible extension through a target, be it someone's ribs, head, etc. i've been taught that not locking the elbow out requires tensing of the opposing muscles to prohibit full extension. a hypothetical argument, and this ignores all other muscles: by punching, you want all the pushing muscles to be used and all the opposing muscles to be relaxed. the best way to do this? do not use your opposing muscles at all, and the arm will naturally straighten itself through the target with no opposing muscles to counteract the force going forward.

again, this is my understanding. i'm not saying it's the only way to deliver power, but it's what i've been taught.

[azwingchun]

I think you just explained the reason for your punching technique, you mention trying to punch through your target. I haven't been taught to present the intent of punching through my target as such, at least since my karate days anyway. And maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. But when I think about the term "punching through my target" I get a picture of a harder style(s) such as karate, boxing etc. My training's intent is to penetrate deep into the body not to go through, if this makes sense. So maybe this is why I don't agree with extending my arm completely. But then again if we all believed in the exact same techniques this forum would be useless.

[Shadowboxer]

Muscles don't push, they pull.

[dzu]

IMHO, if you need to lock the elbow out to get full extension, you're positioning and range is off. A more efficient method is to position your body close to the target so that extension doesn't end where the target begins. You should be extendING through the target and not be extendED by the time you reach the target.

Dzu

[rubthebuddha]

what i mean by extending through my target is not to put a huge hole in their torso or noggin, and when i lock my elbow out, it's safe to do so. i've already said that the arm is only extended when the way is safe -- in wing tsun's case, when there's little or no danger for that arm to be locked, be it because both of my opponent's arms are trapped, their back is turned or i've just done one dandy of a flanking job. the point, and please get it this time, is that the arm is safe to extend all the way.

and the reason why i lock the elbow out? stopping the elbow any earlier than locking it out requires using the muscles opposing those firing the strike to tense and contract, thus risking LOSING force in the strike. basic physics. to cease motion, i need to slow it down first.

last point: no, i don't extend the punch then hit. if you're going to listen, listen to it all first, please. i EXTEND through the target.

example: an opponent steps in with an elbow-down punch, and my punch meets his. his punch makes my punching hand tan sau and i turn to deflect his force. as soon as that tan sau is made, my back hand shoots forward to strike. with the elbow down, my fist reaches my opponents nose well before locking out. my hand continues its progress, pushing the opponent's head back and doing damage on the way.

i don't aim to have my arm lock out when my fist reaches his nose. i aim for it to be plenty bent when it reaches his nose and continue to lock out THOUGH my target.

again, as i have stated several times already, this is what i was taught. i'm not saying it's right, nor am i saying what you're doing is wrong. it's what i know and what i agree with. the logic works with me and i'm confident that when it comes down to needed it, it'll be there and be effective.

period.

as far as being a hard style? nowhere near it. at least the style isn't. i, on the other hand, need plenty more work. i'm training to get softer (wow! how many men would actually admit that?), and working with my instructor is like doing chi sau with smoke, he's so soft. but then he traps me or finds me offline (takes about .3 seconds or less) and he extends through me.

[whippinghand]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
i don't aim to have my arm lock out when my fist reaches his nose. i aim for it to be plenty bent when it reaches his nose and continue to lock out THOUGH my target.

What happens if you miss? Let's say if opponent moves his head out of the way? What are the options for you now "locked out elbow" arm?

[Bessho]

Originally posted by whippinghand

What happens if you miss? Let's say if opponent moves his head out of the way? What are the options for you now "locked out elbow" arm?

retract it. dont stop and pose. mabye grab something on the way back. maybe this, maybe that. the possibilities are numerous. use your little imagination.

<ken