Southern styles inferior to Northern?

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

That's right anton,

Maximus shows no respect what so ever for southern kung fu. Maximus says respect is earned and respect is not given. Basically the old chinese way of doing things is old fashioned. That's why they were conquered by superior western powers. Chinese without western influence simple shuffle around and bow to people. They don't show real attitude as can be seen in southern kung fu.

[anton]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
That's right anton,

Maximus shows no respect what so ever for southern kung fu. Maximus says respect is earned and respect is not given. Basically the old chinese way of doing things is old fashioned.
That's why they were conquered by superior western powers. Chinese without western influence simple shuffle around and bow to people. They don't show real attitude as can be seen in southern kung fu.

If you think that southern kung fu is charecterised by a lack of "real attitude" then instead of sitting on your fat ass and typing out lines from history books why don't you go into a southern style gwoon and tell them that they're inferior and they have no attitude.
Instead of shooting your mouth off why don't you talk with your hands for once you Pl_lSSY.

PS - Do you always refer to yourself in the third person? Do you always choose pompous names?
Talk about small pen|s syndrome...

[TIger Hand]

anton-

DON'T SAY HE IS QUOTING LINES FROM HISTORY BOOKS.

He can't even read, nor does he has any FACTS AT ALL!

I can prove it to you watch his reply to my statements....................


BUTHEAD-

Hahahaha..........you finally proved to yourself how ignorant you are about Chinese History!

Read my post carefully!

Yes, Yin Tong was a little less famous, BUT.......Huang Po is known throughout China, Hong Kong and ESPECIALLY Taiwan.

It IS and WAS the Central Military Academy of the Kuomintang(research who they are yourself) In fact I "THINK", Taiwan still calls the military academy Haung Po.

It must have been a DISCRACE for northern masters NOT to have been POSTED THERE!

What a pity, poor northern master could not prove his kungfu good enough to be chosen by Chang Kai Shek to teach his officer corps! It's ok, its possible they had a post teaching push ups, because hand to hand combat was being taught by Chung Lai Chun(southern kungfu teacher).

I also mentioned this too, but in your complete ignorance you just SELECTIVELY try to cut and paste what EVERYONE post, in order to save whats left of your A$$FACE!

Yes, as long as you talk and i reply, Iam speaking to your A$$. Again I'm suprise you admit your A$$ is your HEAD!

[PlasticSquirrel]

you come into a southern forum making parallels to how you would like things to be from totally different parts of the world, saying that the chinese army is the greatest thing ever... you are such a complete idiot.

southern styles got respect, and they needed to have gotten it to have stayed around. in the old days there were challenge matches between people regularly. in the south there were people who knew northern temple styles. some of them were very good. they did not dominate the southern styles in the least, though.

you are just a paraplegic little b|tch who can't prove anything about his opinions. why do you even put up a fight or try to take little bites out of southern styles? we've beaten you, and you are now the southern forum's own local idiot. you came, you presented, you couldn't back anything up, and now you're just taking petty little bites out of us like the little b|tch you are. you simply can't back up anything. you are pitiful.

southern styles have always been tough. very tough. everyone knows it. someday when you stop being so paraplegic and go to a southern school, you will find yourself in a wheelchair again.

[PlasticSquirrel]

agh... php scripting... (double post)

[TIger Hand]

See what I mean when i said he can't read; look at the BUTHEAD-Extrodinare's rebuttal to my statements.....................................(th e eerie sound of silence)

Plastic-

It's good you posted twice, cause he can't read too well.

The "D!CKLESS Extrodinare" is not going to provide any rebuttal to your points. He will probably try to answer you without answering you; like he usually do.............mentioning how the "sucky" army used xingyi as a force multiplier, how great the army was,......blah,blah,blah.................

Keep goin around and around in a circle, like those idiots in a wheelchair at the mental ward.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

This is where the discussion stands at the present time. It all can be summerized in the following 9 points. Going forward, Maximus would only reply to those post intended to be adult discussions and clearly address the points for debate.

1) Having already shown that martial culture in China is not that different from Europe and the middle East when these cultures had the same technology, it is a logical extension that martial techniques were devised by the military. These cultures used swords, spears, bow & arrows, built defensive walls etc. and so did Chinese military.

The burden of proof is not in your court if you insist that that there are vast dissimilarities between China and other cultures as mentioned.

2) Comparative cultures also had well developed religious practices and the temples had some sort of security force. These force were however not the elite personnel sent on difficult military campaigns. Additionally, churches in Western Europe had closer connections with the government and the military BUT they had not been the training ground or research & development arm of the military. How can you support the claim that Shaolin temple was the “college” for kung fu, when it had less connection with the military and government? Again the burden of proof is in your court!

3) Your claim that Shaolin temple monks had to develop advanced arts to protect their wealth is dubious. Firstly, Buddism or Taosim does not expound accumulation of material wealth. And even if it were so, why then do we NOT see heavy fortifications surrounding the Shaolin temples. And when then do we NOT see paintings of monks using bow and arrows catapults etc for territorial defence?

The conclusion that can be drawn from this is that the military had a more pressing defence issue than the monks and have spent a higher defence budget compared to the monks on relative terms. It is logical that advance kung fu came from the military and not from the monks.

4) Inferiority of Southern styles. Firstly, they were not used in the military. Having already shown that Hsing I had been adapted to bayonnett practice and the special forces of Taiwan and China learned northern styles. Following on from the above points, Northern Kung Fu must have been superior to Southern Kung Fu.

5) Not to be confused. It is true that many northern kung fu specialist have a back ground knowledge of southern Kung Fu. This is because, the military prospect for talented students (prospectively good fighters) from villages and if selected, they would further their training in Northern Kung Fu. Therefore, it may have been the case that an instructor in the military is also a master in Southern dragon etc. etc, however, the material taught in the military academy is strictly Northern.

6) Inferiority of Southern styles II Immigrants from Southern China were frequently the target for abuse in countries like United States and Australia during the gold rush era. The abuse stemmed from fellow miners (as opposed to armed raiders or police – who basically had the firepower to abuse anyone and everyone). There was also no record of power chi kung wielded by the Southern masters or claws that could tear a man apart like those of the tiger. Rather, records of the abuse can be easily found in historical records.

7) Superiority of Northern Kung Fu. Body guards who were experts in northern styles were hired by government officials, wealthy individuals and ran escort along the silk road. Given that the silk road was the channel for commercial trade across many different cultures, it is logical to deduce that these northern styles had been tested against a wide range of fighting styles from a cross section of cultures. The use of Northern styles in the elite military up to this very day is evidence enough of their effectiveness and superiority over the southern styles.

8) Southern styles lacked combat stimulus. Southern styles were practiced by farmers and villages who may have had neighourly disputes from time to time. The lack of heavy fortification around the villages unlike the castles in Scotland is evidence that Chinese villages were not subject to a constant threat of invasion. With this evidence at hand, one can vindicate the first point and therefore conclude that Southern Styles lacked combat stimulus.

9) Showing respect. Maximus shows little respect for southern styles. According to the world of Maximus, Kung Fu is nothing more than a topic of discussion on this forum. Maximus has no emotional connection to any kung fu style. They are nothing more than combat systems. This way of thinking separates a professional soldier from a gun buff who may be emotionally attached to his /her 12 gauge shot gun. Accordingly, a kung fu sifu should not be respected more than your plumber, mechanic, doctor, dentist, lawyer or any other professional you hire to meet your requirements. If you feel that what they represent is crap, then one should not be inhibitated and tell them it’s crap. Maximus finds Southern Kung Fu crap and the arguments to support this.

[PlasticSquirrel]

you haven't convinced anyone or proven to anyone anything, ego. everyone sides with us because they know we are right. we don't use faulty logic when we have real instances and facts to reference. you, obviously, have none, and need to use guessing to prove points that you wish were true.

you obviously have no real knowledge, so just shut up and leave. no one wants you around, and you have nothing to offer, and no real facts or instances to show.

[jon]

Hey look everyone i know how to solve our problem quickly and easily....

Yes Ego you are dead right!
Thank you for showing us the true way!
Thank you for your 'research' that you concocted for your points!
Thank you for wasting precious moments of your life on a futile argument!
Thank you for pointing out that we really are very easily trolled!

Now where can i go to learn the real deal Ego? I took up Bagwa and Tai Chi but is that really enough? You see im starting to realise its actualy YOU and you alone who knows the true way. So my next logical question becomes how do i seek you out for a lesson?

We should all become Ego's converts and just let him feel better about himself for the first time in years. I for one am ready to my good deed who's with me?

Please respond to me Ego this is a "post intended to be adult discussions and clearly address the points for debate. "

Can i start to call you sifu?

[TIger Hand]

What a PREDICTABLE BUTHEAD!-

Hey Plastic, didn't I say he will answer with more points about HIS OWN VIEWS?

He doesn't answer anyones points; just keep rambling on those SAME MORONIC points over and over and over.................even thou we destroyed ALL of his "so called facts" as nothing but dillusions.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

You may already be learning the real deal. If you want my opinion, start be describing what you've learned in tai chi and Bagwa.

I live in the States, might be difficult for you to visit given that you're in Australia. I don't get much visitors these days and it's hard for me to get around in a wheel chair.

Can you not find a good Northern School in Australia?

[jon]

You prefer the chase more than the kill i can tell
I can see this forum provides some form of metal gymnastics for you and in a funny way I cant help but admire your way of doing things. Your trolling but i can forgive that
You should look into seriously learning martial arts, even from a wheelchair. You may find your mind allows you some compensation for movement, or you may not and simply have to work twise as hard as the rest. Hasnt that always been the way of any truely proficent practioner though?
Maybe you just want some clarification that you can fight without dancing around or maybe you just want some attension. Either way you have gotten pleanty of fuel for your fire. Mental sparring can be fun but in the end you need to rememeber its just that, if you want to learn skill then learn skill. Dont just try to analyse it, this will only lead to disapointment.

PS The bagua and Tai Chi is very nice.
Doesnt mean ill be leaving my good ol Hung Ga though
I have to admit though i cant really see either bagua or Tai Chi being any use on a battlefield, there both to dependent on waiting for your opponent.
Brilliant dueling arts though and exercelent health benifits which transfer nicely to any kung fu system.

[redfist]

i interpret your post s as a cry for help,

what town or city in nj do you live in?

i noticed you have an intrest in chi kung,

i may be able to offer you some assistance.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

That's fair enough, if you feel hung gar is more fulfilling by all means go for it!

In terms of Bagwa and Tai chi, your correct, they're excellent duelling arts. It does not mean you wait for the opponent, sure it's important to time your attacks properly but you do take active steps in setting up your strategy.

However, military is more than just the battle field. Having said that, battlefield is a messy proposition for any style. You may be a bagua expert with a broad sword. But faced with an onslaught of spear wielding troops, things become very hairy. Having mastered the style should improve chances of survival,being able to adapt quickly to the changing scenarios.

But to be honest, alot depends on luck, chances are you could be at the receiving end of a volley of arrows, not to mention the opposing troops could be well rehersed to fight in a formation. On the battlefield, if your side is surrounded or cut off from support, its easy to be blindsided and few things can save you.

High level techniques are generally taught to troops whose operations include operating in small numbers, or having to work in close confines where a spear is not practical.

But all things being equal, I rather be a bagua expert on a battlefield than a trooper who is not!

[jon]

"It does not mean you wait for the opponent, sure it's important to time your attacks properly but you do take active steps in setting up your strategy."
- I would have to disagree on the Tai Chi front, the art to me does not seem to offence well, it specialises in using the oppenents force against them. This is a brilliant dueling skill but becomes much less usefull when your faced with killing a man who isnt even looking your way or worse still trying to ambush several.

"However, military is more than just the battle field."
- Given but for our context of debate it will have to do.

"Having said that, battlefield is a messy proposition for any style. You may be a bagua expert with a broad sword. But faced with an onslaught of spear wielding troops, things become very hairy. Having mastered the style should improve chances of survival,being able to adapt quickly to the changing scenarios. "
- Comming out of the said situation alive will not purely depend just on your kf skill but also a lot on your strategic use of movement and your ability to perform under preasure. Your particular style becomes less important faced with insumountable odds as your main weapon becomes quick thinking and experience.


"But to be honest, alot depends on luck, chances are you could be at the receiving end of a volley of arrows, not to mention the opposing troops could be well rehersed to fight in a formation."
- Well said, there will always be times when your simply not capable of pulling off what you hope and you just go down in a blaze of glory. Men should die once but we should die with some meaning.


"On the battlefield, if your side is surrounded or cut off from support, its easy to be blindsided and few things can save you."
-High suvival instinct and grace under preasure are attributes of a well trained fighter. Even these sometimes cannot save you but at least they can make your last moments more meaningfull.


"High level techniques are generally taught to troops whose operations include operating in small numbers, or having to work in close confines where a spear is not practical."
- You may be surprised at what would be considered 'ambush' techniques. A fine example is the chinese double short swords commonly seen in southern styles like Wing Chun and Hung Ga. These were invented to be easy to carry, easy to conceal and deadly to use. Ambush style tactics are highly aggressive and fast, they must be addaptable and easy to internalise so that when the sh!t hits the fan they can still be remembered under a stress overload. There are no locks and no movements which would cause any undue noice, just quick decisive strikes that kill or cripple as fast as possible. Such skills have always been the domain of southern kung fu.

"But all things being equal, I rather be a bagua expert on a battlefield than a trooper who is not!"
- Yep i would have to agree with you there, except of course you could never know what fist your next opponent could play. Best in war to comprehend most of the possiblitys than know well only a few.
All the best.
Jon