Southern styles inferior to Northern?

[TIger Hand]

I know, I know....... but who else can we curse out make him look like a COMPLETE JERK OFF and he STILL COMES BACK FOR MORE!!!

I'm having fun........hahahhaha........

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

"ego, i am not eating my words, and you have proved nothing in the least."

You best swallow them bitter those words may be.

"how could the military have so much "combat stimulus" that they would have been able to learn what worked and what didn't? no one has that much combat experience in the front lines and lives long enough to make their own style."

Yes, those that don't die on average fight better than those who do. Successful generals pass on the combat knowledge etc. If not, we'll still be fighting like village farmers and not with cruise missiles. Combat stimus is the key to the development of kung fu.

"the only people who have enough "combat stimulus" to be able to develop their own styles from their experiences are professional fighters and teachers of fighting. militaristic types would only focus on weapons, anyway."

As said before, there's a seamless translation between weapons and barehand.

"monks and professionals had the "combat stimulus", though. don't you think that if monks would sit for hours in their stances that they were tough enough to fight eachother? shaolin has always had free fighting."

Yes, squabbling monks and squabbling villages are the arm forces yesterday today and tomorrow. This is how silly your comment sounds.

"how do people get good at fighting at your school? do they get good by being in the military, or good by sparring and getting into real fights? do they have "combat stimulus", or are they wasting their money?"

Firstly, I don't train anymore - not my choice. The good Northern schools concentrate on ensuring that all techniques are tested. The students showed little respect for culture etc. Of course they didn't kid themselves to be better than professional soldiers, although superiority was achieved against southern kung fu.

"i'm well aware, ego, of the state of the gongfu at the shaolin temple. you need not remind me of it, and since it has no relevence to the state of the shaolin temple of more than two hundred years ago, you make no points by reminding us of it."

It's a good reminder. Shaolin temple today like yesterday was not at the front lines. I bet any regular of the chinese army can kick the monks butts certainly today, most likely yesterday and tomorrow.

"i mentioned in my post, ego, that monks used gongfu as a side job, and did not practice it expressly for performance. they were able to get money for performing it not because they were spectacular performers, but because they were renowned for their fighting skill."

I know, like I said, these kung fu side shows are not their main profession. Same reason why soldiers go to war while farmers farm. That's just the order of things as is northern superior and southern inferior.

But back to the medieval knights, they were an combat force who acted with the authority of the church as opposed to fighting style develped by the church and trained within the compounds of the church. It does not contradict any of what i've said but has put a few more holes in yours.

"no, ego, you are still being called an idiot."

I agree, the side that first resorts to personal comments has run out of valid points of argument. You however, have fought a good fight.

"you can not borrow examples from other totally different cultures and expect to replace common knowledge."

They're not totally different as parallels can clearly be drawn on many social economic fronts not to mention military stratergy. Romans built walls, European built walled cities, Chinese built walls. The common theme is that this was optimal prior to the invention of the cannon. Please contest this - as I have hereby disproved your point.

Then perhaps one should question the validity of so called common knowledge. Like I said, you're basing your arguments on fairy tales told by southern masters of a ficticious long-ago.

"i'm getting tired of replying to your idiotic babbling about the military, "combat stimulus", "force multiplying", and topics that have a better place in soldier of fortune. tell me what famous martial artists and fighters were from the military, and i will tell you of some who could not attribute any of their skill to anything remotely military."

Read the web page links in my earlier post. Not only do military elite use northern styles today, these are taught to the regulars. Not to mention, that in the past many ex-military types because body guards for silk road travellers and protecting caravens from the vicious bandits you so mentioned. They were in essence soldiers of fortune - people who can fight, prepared to fight, made a living out of killing. BTW, some farmers made a fotrtune through farming.

[TIger Hand]

The "D!CKLESS" extrodinaire is back..........Hey i think you forgot how to read.


BUTHEAD-

Hahahaha..........you finally proved to yourself how ignorant you are about Chinese History!

Read my post carefully!

Yes, Yin Tong was a little less famous, BUT.......Huang Po is known throughout China, Hong Kong and ESPECIALLY Taiwan.

It IS and WAS the Central Military Academy of the Kuomintang(research who they are yourself) In fact I "THINK", Taiwan still calls the military academy Haung Po.

It must have been a DISCRACE for northern masters NOT to have been POSTED THERE!

What a pity, poor northern master could not prove his kungfu good enough to be chosen by Chang Kai Shek to teach his officer corps! It's ok, its possible they had a post teaching push ups, because hand to hand combat was being taught by Chung Lai Chun(southern kungfu teacher).

I also mentioned this too, but in your complete ignorance you just SELECTIVELY try to cut and paste what EVERYONE post, in order to save whats left of your A$$FACE!

Yes, as long as you talk and i reply, Iam speaking to your A$$. Again I'm suprise you admit your A$$ is your HEAD!

[TIger Hand]

Ummmmm..............BUTHEAD...........???????


BUTHEAD-

Hahahaha..........you finally proved to yourself how ignorant you are about Chinese History!

Read my post carefully!

Yes, Yin Tong was a little less famous, BUT.......Huang Po is known throughout China, Hong Kong and ESPECIALLY Taiwan.

It IS and WAS the Central Military Academy of the Kuomintang(research who they are yourself) In fact I "THINK", Taiwan still calls the military academy Haung Po.

It must have been a DISCRACE for northern masters NOT to have been POSTED THERE!

What a pity, poor northern master could not prove his kungfu good enough to be chosen by Chang Kai Shek to teach his officer corps! It's ok, its possible they had a post teaching push ups, because hand to hand combat was being taught by Chung Lai Chun(southern kungfu teacher).

I also mentioned this too, but in your complete ignorance you just SELECTIVELY try to cut and paste what EVERYONE post, in order to save whats left of your A$$FACE!

Yes, as long as you talk and i reply, Iam speaking to your A$$. Again I'm suprise you admit your A$$ is your HEAD!

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

And for those who are still begging for more evidence, here's a historical piece for you to chew on.

Many piguazhang practitioners from the LuoTong Village came to him to study bajiquan, like Han HuaChen, Ma YingTu, Ma FongTu, Zhou ShuDe and so on. These four people were responsible for introducing a condensed bajiquan style in the Central Martial-Art Academy in Nanjing during the early Republic period. Some of Li's disciples were also then-famous warlord generals, such as Li JingLin, Ren GuoDong, Zhang XiangWu, Na YuKuen, Liu HuChen, and Liu XuDong. Grandmaster Li's first disciple, Huo DianGe, later became the bodyguard and the teacher of China's Last Emperor, FuYi. In Li's later years, he lived in Grandmaster Liu's home for more than 10 years at the family's request as a live-in guest and martial art teacher for the young Liu YunQiao. Read www.bajimen.com for more information.

There's a walth of information on the usage of northern styles in the military. Frequently students of these styles were considered exponents in their own arts, but studied northern styles to better themselves. It would require more political string pulling then humanly possible to attain a teaching position at the Central Martial-Art Academy without first attaining a working knowledge of northern styles.

In any case, it is for the safety of the instructor as it wouldn't look to good to have an instructor to be beaten up by his students and then having his students salute his higher rank!

Northern stlyes have had a rich and productive working history with the military in China from the days of long fist to Baji. the same can be recognized today in the Republic of China as well as Taiwan.

In contrast, southern styles are the work of villages designed to settle minor domestic squabbles or defend themselves against mauraulding monks. However, when some of these migrants arrived in the west during the gold rush days, there was no record of their special inner strength or their fighting prowness. Perhaps southern styles only work in china and not at a bar it someone throwing a few punches. More resonably, perhaps southern styles only work in the tranquil settings of a village when no one bothers you while you do your stance work.

[TIger Hand]

Does everyone NOTICES how he ignores me.............and everyone else who shuts him up in debate...............what a
D!CKLESS BUTHEAD!

[ZhouJiaQuan]

hahahahahaha ya'll are still going at it, jeeze...


go train or something

[TIger Hand]

This must be the 7th time i posted this reply.............hahahaha.......what a BUTHEAD!!!


BUTHEAD-

Hahahaha..........you finally proved to yourself how ignorant you are about Chinese History!

Read my post carefully!

Yes, Yin Tong was a little less famous, BUT.......Huang Po is known throughout China, Hong Kong and ESPECIALLY Taiwan.

It IS and WAS the Central Military Academy of the Kuomintang(research who they are yourself) In fact I "THINK", Taiwan still calls the military academy Haung Po.

It must have been a DISCRACE for northern masters NOT to have been POSTED THERE!

What a pity, poor northern master could not prove his kungfu good enough to be chosen by Chang Kai Shek to teach his officer corps! It's ok, its possible they had a post teaching push ups, because hand to hand combat was being taught by Chung Lai Chun(southern kungfu teacher).

I also mentioned this too, but in your complete ignorance you just SELECTIVELY try to cut and paste what EVERYONE post, in order to save whats left of your A$$FACE!

Yes, as long as you talk and i reply, Iam speaking to your A$$. Again I'm suprise you admit your A$$ is your HEAD!

[TIger Hand]

BUTHEAD-

Hahahaha..........you finally proved to yourself how ignorant you are about Chinese History!

Read my post carefully!

Yes, Yin Tong was a little less famous, BUT.......Huang Po is known throughout China, Hong Kong and ESPECIALLY Taiwan.

It IS and WAS the Central Military Academy of the Kuomintang(research who they are yourself) In fact I "THINK", Taiwan still calls the military academy Haung Po.

It must have been a DISCRACE for northern masters NOT to have been POSTED THERE!

What a pity, poor northern master could not prove his kungfu good enough to be chosen by Chang Kai Shek to teach his officer corps! It's ok, its possible they had a post teaching push ups, because hand to hand combat was being taught by Chung Lai Chun(southern kungfu teacher).

I also mentioned this too, but in your complete ignorance you just SELECTIVELY try to cut and paste what EVERYONE post, in order to save whats left of your A$$FACE!

Yes, as long as you talk and i reply, Iam speaking to your A$$. Again I'm suprise you admit your A$$ is your HEAD!

[TIger Hand]

Again, sorry guys but BUTHEAD still can't read after 9 times.......!!!

BUTHEAD-

Hahahaha..........you finally proved to yourself how ignorant you are about Chinese History!

Read my post carefully!

Yes, Yin Tong was a little less famous, BUT.......Huang Po is known throughout China, Hong Kong and ESPECIALLY Taiwan.

It IS and WAS the Central Military Academy of the Kuomintang(research who they are yourself) In fact I "THINK", Taiwan still calls the military academy Haung Po.

It must have been a DISCRACE for northern masters NOT to have been POSTED THERE!

What a pity, poor northern master could not prove his kungfu good enough to be chosen by Chang Kai Shek to teach his officer corps! It's ok, its possible they had a post teaching push ups, because hand to hand combat was being taught by Chung Lai Chun(southern kungfu teacher).

I also mentioned this too, but in your complete ignorance you just SELECTIVELY try to cut and paste what EVERYONE post, in order to save whats left of your A$$FACE!

Yes, as long as you talk and i reply, Iam speaking to your A$$. Again I'm suprise you admit your A$$ is your HEAD!

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Tigerhand:

"The "D!CKLESS" extrodinaire is back..........Hey i think you forgot how to read."

You appear very eager to carry on with the discussion. Unfortunately, the tone of your posts also reveals any discussions with you wouldn't be grown up.

Accordingly, to you tigerhand, silence is the most appropriate response. You can ROARRRR all you like or scream like a tantrum child. With every analogy you prefer, it will not be heard.

[PlasticSquirrel]

has anything changed since my last post three days ago? have i eaten my words yet? obviously, no. everyone agrees with me, and everyone thinks that ego is foolish.

i think that everyone (besides ego) will agree that chinese military has never had a great reputation, and probably never will.

shaolin and southern styles, on the other hand, have incredible reputations for their effectiveness. southern is known for it's effectiveness, brutality, power, and qinna.

we can't assume that just because it is logical for military to have good fighters that it was so. we need to look deeper into these matters, pull aside the curtain of folk legends that go back less than one hundred years, and see what things were for what they were. shaolin was still well-known for having deadly fighters. hung gar had many, many branches, and was known for it's power and effectiveness. how can you dispute reputation that originated from people far before legends of these styles emerged? it is all that we have to help understand things better.

of course, we can look in text books, or read records. text books give historical facts, and tell basically nothing about a culture or it's many small victories. records give legal and government (and military) information. from them, we can find out some things, and correct minor errors regarding dates and names, but they do not tell much about the bigger pictures.

in closing, i'm not going to reply to ego's last points in his other post. they're not worth it, i'm sorry to say. for the sake of us all, everyone please be objective and find out the truth about these styles.

i would advise that no one post on this thread anymore. it isn't worth it. even if ego responds, don't post. the rest of us know the truth about southern styles, and ego isn't going to change his mind, or the mind of anyone else. i already have the backing of everyone else on this forum, and i'm content to leave it at that. ego lost.

[TIger Hand]

BUTHEAD-

Hahahahhahahahahaha............................... ....hahahhahaha.............oh my god you kill me.........................!!!!!!


Ignore me...............??????!!!!!

That is all you have to say when I shut you up in a debate!!!

SHUT YOU UP BY DEBATING POINTS, for that matter, not even cursing at you. It's only when you choose to ignore(as you usually do when someone destroys your points) that's when I started to get more abrasive.

You must have been a A+ student in college debate; or did you ever go to college?

My guest is probably not, showing your skills in debating.

Hear is something for you to read again, southern style taught in the military, it wasn't all northern.

[TIger Hand]

You can ignore me, it's ok.

I have made my points and subsequently you couldn't provide a counterpoint.

Therefore you are the FOOL, and I will follow Plastic and leave it as that.

Yes, my ROARRRRRR has silenced you!

hahaha......its been a blast!

[anton]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Tigerhand:

...Unfortunately, the tone of your posts also reveals any discussions with you wouldn't be grown up.

Accordingly, to you tigerhand, silence is the most appropriate response. You can ROARRRR all you like or scream like a tantrum child. With every analogy you prefer, it will not be heard.

You come here and pour sh1t on Southern styles. You show no f(_)cking respect, and an obvious lack of PRACTICAL experience of the way a gongfu school is run. Your 'research' impresses no one here as it is obviously being voiced by someone with no understanding of gongfu. You show complete disregard to the unwritten rules of etiquette of Chinese martial arts circles.
If you had the balls to go into any decent school to and start pouring crap on their style, you would promptly have your ass kicked by the sifu or any student who happens to be nearby.
How dare you lecture someone about tone or respect!!