Southern styles inferior to Northern?

[Ginger Fist]

Some of you have a fixation on the rear end.

--in ur case ... just stating the obvious

Whether it is the result of your training I don't know -

--u r right ... u know nothing of training

not that there's anything wrong with it.

--puts u in proper focus ... fruit loops

I guess there are some styles that don't trade blows face to face.

--u have a fixation on blowing things ... care to explain?

Not that theres anything wrong with it.

--nothing wrong with any1 ... except u girlie boy

Like fierce tiger said - what ever makes you happy.

--like f.t. said ... u certainly r a stupid fu(k!

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Gingerfist

you've really outdone yourself this time. a bit of smutty comments, name calling and the good ole slap stick humour.

Pitty you speak so much but don't say alot. .... Not that there's anything wrong with it.

[jon]

Funny you should say that to Ginger and yet make no points of merit yourself.
You insult Southern kung fu on a southern forum?
Obviously your just trolling ive never once met a proper fighter who really thinks the way you seem to.
Either way please tell us exactly what system you deem as being so much better.
More to the point have you ever crossed hands with anyone from a southern school?
Why dont you go down to a local Hung Ga school and tell them your views im sure they would love to show you there stuff.
Obviously you have no substance otherwise you would be stating some actual points for us rather than just acting like a child.
As for "I guess there are some styles that don't trade blows face to face. Not that theres anything wrong with it." isnt that EXACTLY what your doing?
As i say put up some points or shut the hell up.

[redfist]

all my efforts at to resist posting on this thread have failed.
your last reply had me laughing out loud!
i am new to this site and i now know what a troll is,someone who`s response or initial post, is designed to provoke an arguement.
anyone who posts in this manner should expect to come under
attack and ,should not get thier feelings hurt,when they do.

[Ginger Fist]

all my efforts at to resist posting on this thread have failed.
your last reply had me laughing out loud!

--thanks ... i aim 2 plz

i am new to this site and i now know what a troll is,someone who`s response or initial post, is designed to provoke an arguement.

--good working definition ... tho sometimes a post provokes an argument when it's only a stong worded opposing view. fu*cking pc police everywhere ... check out all the poseurs & wannabes with their 'sifu' titles ... hose monkeys 4 sure

anyone who posts in this manner should expect to come under
attack and ,should not get thier feelings hurt,when they do.

--yessireebob ... i think the hurt feelings thing is just a ploy ... so i stomp their as*s a bit more ... can't stand loose threads

[yuanfen]

Robert Smith and North/South issues:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Smith is an interesting and a good writer/story teller. In his early days with Don Draeger he didn't have much competition* in writing about martial arts in the US and he got away with commenting in passing commentaries on a lot of arts. But time shows that his reach unfortunately much* exceeds his grasp. His early experience was more in Taiwan and he became a fan of Chen Man Ching's tai chi. His knowledge of the southern arts is quite limited as well as his knowledge of some northern arts including Chen style taiji. He didn't really spend quality time in Hong Kong and his knowledge of the mainland was poor.
I have looked at his latest book- it is a very uneven piece of work-
he aptly names it "Martial Musings"... some of his musings are cute and* on target-others are off. His passing and superficial comments on many styles specially* southern kung fu are just plain- off.* Yuanfen

[Ginger Fist]

--given ur background in m.a. & the academic world ur pan of smith's work saved me some time & expense. thanx

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Jon

Let's start by saying that southern kung fu is peasent kung fu. As opposed to being the fists of fury, southern kung fu systems are fists of farmers. What happens when farmers raise their fists against warriors?

Not that there's anything wrong with Southern Kung Fu, as it must have had it use for its time. Domestic squabbles maybe, settling arguments with fellow farmers or farmers from other villiges. Farmers are not stupid people, they are under no illusion that southern kung fu is not meant for serious combat. They quite rightly recognised its use in a relatively sedate envrionment in a farm or villige where everyone takes care of everyone else, in most cases. Why are some Southern Kung Fu practitioners today under an illusion of gradure? Have practitioners today suddenly become stupid? Perhaps not - here's a likely answer why some people are still tooting the Great Southern Kung Fu horn.

During the post cultural revolution era, a sense of mystique was developed around kung fu as it was a way of reminisssing about old times in a passing of age towards a more westerned society. All sorts of clans and secrets upon secrets were built around Southern kung fu styles. There was also a proliferation of forms and ritualistic protocols. For example many southern kung fu clubs dress their students up in stunning traditional uniforms, some even learn Cantonese and lion dancing to perform during cultural related events such as chinese new year. There's also the lavishly decorated kwoon with more ancesteral memobrilia then pictures of Elvis in Tinsletown. The Style comprises of an encyclopedia of forms that look the same with the exception that the moves have been rearranged and a gambit of exotic weapons than have out lived their usefulness. Southern Kung Fu does not get pass beginner level self defence. There is an obvious migration away from fighting into code of behaviour that could concievably turn a human being into a semblance of a 13th centuary Chinese farmer!

If Southern Kung Fu was representative of chinese tradition, then perhaps its ok, as one could say that kung fu is a way of preserving one's culture, even though the little fighting aspects that it had had long been forgotten. Sadly, Southern Kungfu doesn't even achieve these aims. The rest of Chinese society has moved on and yet, what is represented in Kung Fu is more akin to chop suey B grade pop clulture. It ispreserving an incestious line of thinking that is doing no one any good. Examples include the infighting amongst southern kung fu styles (Care to name a few?) which resulted in the constant back stabbing between sifus and shings and their students etc. In more ways then one, southern styles trade blows to the rear end!

The fighting aspects of Southern Kung fu can be best represented in the Fighting Arts of Frankenstine. Remeber how the re-animated corpse gracefully flows across the room trapping the intended victim in a set of skilful manuvours. I don't. It seemed more like a dead man's shuffle, with arms failing up and down, up and down. The difference between the two lies in the fancy uniform or bi-lingual prowness (in English and Cantonese) of a Southern Kung fu practitioner.

Knowing that they can't conceivably chase down a human being, the Southern Kung Fu master has to expresas his warrior spirit in other ways. Why not crack afew bricks or wood with bare hands. That certainly impresses the crowds, if nothing else, it provides an opportunity to sell half baked home remedies derived from snake skin oil. Fortunately, the Food and Drug legislation in the United States has put an end to these shonky sales practices. Unfortiunately the tradition of cracking imobile objects lives on into the 21th Centuary.

In all seriousness, Southern Kung Fu is not know for its combat abilities. The Chinese military have used Northern systems such as Hsing I, Ba Ji, Eagle Claw etc. Elite guards apply Northern Praying Mantis systrms. To summerise, battles raged in the North and northern systems improved to meet the challenge for survival. Southerners tilled the soil and squabbled over pigs and cattle. I'm happy to take any questions.

[yuanfen]

Anonymous trolling ego-(non extraordinaire- egos are very common things) dont know your background. But here goes some non serious counter trolling. Most contemporary northern stylists are wannabe warriors. Since 1949 in the PRC
northern styles with some notable exceptions were disemboweled.
If they once knew how to fight individually it evaporated considerably. Northerern arts developed out of pitched army battles. The southern arts were rebel arts designed for close quarters quick guerilla actions against larger forces. Taiwan also discouraged "fighting" and not all CMA are well represented in Taiwan. The southern arts however kept greater continuity after the PRC takeover...top flight southern folks in several major southern arts moved to Hong Kong and some to Macao and several other places. Many of the southern masters and students were associated with various tongs and therfore generally anti establishment. Those roots were there in the south during the ching/qing expansion which involved all kinds of local alliances- where not just peasants but gangs, rebels and pirates were involved. The southern arts retained greater secrecy- some still do. The Hakka rebels moved south and it is very difficult even now to have a true knowledgeable hakka to show things.
So go north dear troll and do some wushu routines and dream on...being a warrior. Quieten the ego and get some knowledge instead perhaps eventually..

[Steven T. Richards]

Hello Max,

Could you answer my earlier post/question re do you consider Tibetan Pai to be 'Southern'. Some do, others do not.

Steve.

[jon]

Funny i posted an angry reply in the other thread before reading this.
STILL no points of merit your only speculating about how you percive that southern masters have aquired there skill.
You make no note of the fact there are many temples in southern china which taught martial arts nor the many familys which established ammazing systems.
You make no note of systems like Southern Mantis, White Eyebrows and Hung Ga all of which have been proven time and time again in combat vs high level masters from various arts [including MANY northern].
Your comments also make clear what i was already thinking. You have obviously never trained in a true scma let alone faced one in combat.
Trolling is one thing, a lot of people do it but most have some form of vaidity. You see the idea is to stir up arguement using actual POINTS. This insures a long lasting debate.
What your doing is just meaningless and kinda pointless as its only making YOU look like a fool.

[Ginger Fist]

But here goes some non serious counter trolling. Most contemporary northern stylists are wannabe warriors.

--batta bing!!! straight 2 the heart & ego excrement goes down in flames

[jon]

To summerise, battles raged in the North and northern systems improved to meet the challenge for survival.

- by learning how to 'modernise' there skills into the wonderfull SPORT of wu-shu. There by fooling the general public into thinking that running around while waving the hands about quickly and tricking jumping kicks where good martial arts.

Southerners tilled the soil and squabbled over pigs and cattle.

- becouse apparently all the farms and farmers where only in southern china. Northern china had to make do with food that could be grown outside of a farm enviroment.

I'm happy to take any questions.

-Then answer the ones i posted last time:
"Either way please tell us exactly what system you deem as being so much better?"
"More to the point have you ever crossed hands with anyone from a southern school? "

[fiercest tiger]

Did you say at one time you are wheelchaired or are you just making this up?

What about shaolin arts do they classify as farmers arts?



is your wheelchair motorized or is it a manual? please excuse me for asking im only interested so i get an idea here!!

cya

[bean curd]

guys you shouldn't take ego serious in any way shape or form.

he had the oppertunity to show his skills, well at least those of his students at the wong fei hung tourny in N.Y. and he didn't show up.

f.t. you are also correct ego stated then that he couldn't fight due to being in a wheel chair and for this reason he was going to bring some of his students to take part in the fighting to show the skills of his style - which at even this point i still don't know what it is.

it was also said that if he couldn't come then those who could would go visit him, and he wouldn't put his schools location public or even on emial to those involved.

the long and short of it all - he has two chances of doing gung fu and buckly died in a shark attack hahaha.

ego i know you'll retort, but first off, " if you open your mouth your fists better follow", and second if you do know chinese history, then you would know from that perspective it was the southern chinese that held off on every occasion and not the northerners.

as to scholistics, emperial armies, bodyguards etc, you got all that out of a book and have no idea of reality, cause if you did understand, you would realise that china consists of both north and south, not just one area.

mate get a life !!!!