mexican kung fu?

[JasBourne]

"Interesting that both points of view get some play in the quote you give"

Yah, I did that on purpose, exactly because we don't know for a fact. It was, however, the only reference I could find to the less popular point of view.

Back on topic: there are indigenous dances in some of the more isolated (read: inbred) tribes in Mexico that depict conflict or combat between two males. This might *possibly* be a legacy of martial training, although practically every culture has some kind of ritual "combat" dancing.

The thing that most points to there having been no 'mexican kungfu' per se, is that despite Spanish conquest and subsequent persecution (and believe me, the Spaniards were absolutely ruthless bast@rds, American slaveowners were girlscouts by comparison), so much deep culture survived practically intact. If there was an empty-hand system, the campesinos would have retained it in some form.

Heck, I'd love to hear about real "mexican kungfu"! It would give me something say besides "why yes, I DO come from a long and illustrious line of oppressors!" or "I cut chu, mon!"

[Qi dup]

Well I don't know much about anything and this is my first post but I was just at Chichen Itza (sp?) and the guy there said that new reasurch points twards the winner being sacraficed. I wouldn't be saprised if they had a martial arts system, they seemed like very smart people. and there are actually a lot of similarites between the mayans and asian people. The guy on the tour said that both cultures are born with the same birth mark that goes away as they get older. I'm not sure if that is true or not. Some people believe that the mayans were from asian and even though it would have been a long time ago, maybe some of the same principles were passed down? hmmmm, perhaps not. Anyway there culture was very amazing, in the arena were they played the games if you claped you heard 7 fast echoes, and there are seven levels to the pyramid there. it was something like 200 ft. long and if you stood on either end in a special spot you could aperantly hear a pin drop. there are all kinds of interesting things there. I'm not sure what it could mean, maybe it was just because I was in th jungles surounded by all kinds of life but I felt some very interesting qi there. well just food for thought.

[Chang Style Novice]

Welcome, Qi Dup! It's been a while since I visited any Mexican Pyramids, but they are most impressive, and the Aztec/Maya achievements in stonework, astronomy, and other fields are frankly breathtaking.

Jasbourne -

"If there was an empty-hand system, the campesinos would have retained it in some form. "

Well, maybe. I'm gonna go way out on some skinny limbs for the next paragraph or so, so take it as you will. For one thing, I haven't neccessarily posited an empty hand form. The eagle club is a bit like a sword, and the juego de pelota we've discussed was (if memory serves, the later it gets, the shakier my memory is) was played with a lacrosse-type net on a stick. We all know how stickfighting and bladefighting are extremely important to many if not most MA traditions. We've also all head the stories of how capoiera - and newer to me the 'jailhouse rock - styles were hidden by oppressed populations for fear of giving away secret weapons. If you are outclassed by technology as I discussed before, you might well go underground with your bare-handed styles to preserve them, and they might persist hidden from outsiders even up to today. The stronger the oppression, the greater the impulse to keep such secret knowledge hidden, I'd say.

Heck, I'd love to hear about real "mexican kungfu"! It would give me something say besides "why yes, I DO come from a long and illustrious line of oppressors!" or "I cut chu, mon!"

Heck, haven't you heard of Mexican Judo? "Judo know if I gotta knife, judo know if I gotta gun, judo know how many of my vatos I got hangin' around here..."

[Daniel Madar]

After the aztecs kicked everyone else's asses, there was not enough bloodshed to support the level of sacrifices demanded by Huitzlipotchtli--numbers of sacrifices for Montezuma's coronation were estimated at between 100 and 500 thousand. Since both warfare and sacrifice were required to control population growth limited by the general lack of arable land, the Aztecs came up with a unique solution.

Every year conquered tribes were required to send young men to fight in Flower Wars. These were generally non-lethal mock combat, with an important difference. The goal was to capture opponents. If you got captured, you got sacrificed.

To my understanding, one of the primary methods of capturing people involved the thumbnail. Aztec warriors continuously hit their thumbnails until they grew out thick, strong and clawlike. They would grapply opponents, and essentially ram the thumbnail into their foes throats, just below the adam's apple, and between the collar bones. In the case of capturing, they would simply apply non lethal force.

[Badger]

Judo know if I have a knife.Judo know if I have a gun.







Badger

[YungOne]

from what I "read" on the internet....was some shaolin monks taught kung fu to rebels,hence mexican kung fu.It didn't have a whole lot of info,but it did say that instead of weapons training with shaolin weapons they trained with semis.

[GeneChing]

Wiinkilil is 'new' but fits the bill. It's compared to Tai Chi, so it's still sorta a Kung Fu.

Mexican Martial Art Based on Traditional Mayan Culture


Wiinkilil Art of Defense is an interdisciplinary project involving dancers, choreographers, visual artists, and more. | Photo: Facebook / INAMM

Published 29 August 2016

Wiinkilil Art of Defense reimagines traditional movements of everyday life in Mayan culture as a new form of self-defense expressed through dance.
A group of Mexican dancers and martial artists are reclaiming their history through a brand new style of martial arts that aims to both showcase and protect ancient Mayan world views and “endangered” human movements through a distinctly Mexican art form rooted in traditional Indigenous culture.

The project, titled Wiinkilil Art of Defense, brings together the ancient and the modern as its founders and practitioners “transform traditional Mayan movements” into “movements of personal defense.”

“(The project) aims to highlight self-defense for what it represents artistically and symbolically in order to reflect on those elements of everyday life, which can be taken up again in the contemporary art context,” Gervasio Cetto, one of the masterminds behind the initiative, told the Mexican new agency Notimex in an interview published Monday.



According to a description published on the website of the National Institute of Issues of Movement of Mexico, the reinterpretation of historically important movements in a way that can still be relevant and beautiful today represents an “interdisciplinary work that imagines what the first Mexican art of defense would be like."

The idea for the initiative was born in 2013 within a larger project, called Human Movements in Danger of Extinction in Mexico, that aims to uncover, preserve, and showcase the everyday movements that have long been practiced in Mexico’s Indigenous communities, but are increasingly being lost under the social and economic impacts of neoliberal capitalism.

Such movements could be very mundane yet simultaneously specialized, like the actions involved in making traditional foods, practising ancestral forms of medicine, or harvesting Indigenous plants—specific cultural knowledge that is increasingly being lost in modern Mexico.

Reimagining these movements as a form of martial arts, the creators of Wiinkilil Art of Defense forge an intriguing parallel between self-defense and the defense of Indigenous cultural practices and identities.

“From the beginning, the idea was to incorporate the public in the creative process of transforming traditional movements,” Cetto continued, adding that each performance of the self-defense dance is unique as a result of the dynamic between performers and the audience. “The idea is to prevent these movements from disappearing and for that it is definitively necessary that people identify with and take part in this process.”

The multi-disciplinary project brings together dancer, choreographers, visual artists, musicians, and other artists to create works that aim to transcend the performance space and touch on everyday themes of education, health, and cultural heritage in a direct way, according to Cetto.

Wiinkilil Art of Defense has been compared to Tai Chi due to its fluid and controlled movements. It also bears similarities to the Brazilian martial art Capoeira due to its unique fusion of self-defense and choreographed dance.