Elephant Style Kung Fu

[hskwarrior]

I have been practicing Hung SIng Choy Lee Fut now for 24-25 years. No, i wasn't always at the school practicing, but when a foster home took me too far to return to practice regularly i practiced what i knew on my own, but have been under Sifu Salvatera now for 2 and a half decades. and most of the time i practiced every single day 7 days a week in or out of the school. I learned and kept many of my sifu's very hardcore training and applications and pass that on to my students to keep up the tradition of when i first started learning. basically i have taken it back to the old school with modern-day approach.

Now, let me preface this by saying that within my sifu's school we will only get the elephant if we deserve it. thats just how it is, nothing will change that. i actually like it that way because it serves as motivation. The Elephant and its usage has always been around my school but if you have never learned it you were forbidden to ever imitate, steal, or use the elephant fist or techniques, and sometimes even talk about it. it is a treasured form within our branch.

I spoke with my sifu just now and i have been authorized to speak about this subject. its just that i will never be able to demonstrate its techniques. However certain strikes are already floating around out there. Personally i have been practicing the Mon Jerng a little more than 10 years now. i first learned the usage by having it done on me by my sifu. so at first i got the "Essence" of it, and that took some time to perfect. when i learned the form that just basically opened up a whole new world for me. but truthfully, i prefer practicing the usage of the Mon Jerng over the form. still, it is such a powerful method, as i have said, even demolishing. I used it on one of my students the other day ( a very simple technique) and the next morning his arm was pretty bruised up. I only struck his arms cuz i didn't want to hurt him.

so from this point, i will try to answer any questions i can.

hsk

[hskwarrior]

Judge, you are right. there are some people that try to mirror their sifu's movements and manorisms. I for one have imitated my sifu, but i learned when he was around my age today.

Some out of injuries like a bad shoulder or collapsed lung or some slightly altered range of movement will move a little different. and because students don't know better and the teacher never corrects them then the students will learn bad habits. i've witnessed this first hand and had the reaction of "what the hell are they doing? or why are they doing it like that? then one day one of my si-sooks say they can tell i am a student of DIno because i move like him. But imitation is the highest compliment, right? then i understood why some people move the way they do. their sifu must move like that.


still, there's just a difference learning from a young sifu than with a really old one.
not wrong or right.

hsk

[Ou Ji]

Maybe a new thread should open up discussing the merits of training under a teacher who is young and at the top of his game.

Or the merits of training under a teacher who is older, more seasoned and who has spent more time studying and refining his techniques.

[Judge Pen]

Maybe a new thread should open up discussing the merits of training under a teacher who is young and at the top of his game.

Or the merits of training under a teacher who is older, more seasoned and who has spent more time studying and refining his techniques.

OG,

Sounds like a great idea for a thread. Wanna start one?

[diego]

Hi guys,

just thought i'd participate on this elephant form ya'll have been speaking on about.

From what i've heard is Wong, Doc Fai does have the elephant form, and it certainly does come from Professor Lau Bun, not Wong Gong. He published a magazine article about it featuring his son Jason Wong.

also, i've heard that it is a treasured form, closely guarded in the current Hung Sing Studio under Grand Master D. Salvatera. it is my understanding that Wong, Doc Fai may have only gotten a version or modified version of it. the real question here is what version did he get? who got the original? Was it his si-hing Jew Leong? or did Professor Lau Bun keep the original for himself and only give a modified version of it. He was known to alter a set or two to fit a specific individual.

However, i do own a copy of a dvd with Wong Doc Fai in his youth performing the elephant set, along with some clips of him performing the butterfly sword form which is much different than what he performed on that old Wah Lum tape he did.

But, don't be fooled there are many versions out there and all claim to have the original. who's to tell?



Have a good day.

hskwarrior

Frank, is it possible for me to see some of your clips on Doc fai Wong in his youth demoing the set?.

[ngkrw]

I'm a twenty plus year practitioner of the late Grandmaster Ark Wong's Ng Ga Kuen system. We also have an elephant set. Its one of the second group of five animals that we learn after learning the first five and more commonly known, snake,tiger, leopard,dragon, and crane.

[diego]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=ChWLVs1JqM4

peep the three minute mark...does he say five Elephants vs the ghostface killa?...dude in brown with long white hair

I'm need more time to scan that article.

[GeneChing]

Elephant "kungfu" show angers rights group
English.news.cn 2014-07-07 00:16:12 [More]

TIANJIN, July 6 (Xinhua) -- A northern Chinese zoo has drawn protest from animal rights activists by putting up elephant shows that featured handstands and other "martial art" performances.

The Tianjin Zoo introduced two Asian elephants from the southern city of Shenzhen on May 21 to perform various stunts, including walking on "plum blossom stakes," apparently inspired by a similar kungfu exercise, and crossing a single-plank bridge, local media have reported earlier.

The zoo holds five shows a day on workday, which last for 20 minutes each, with extra rounds at weekends and holidays, says a post in the zoo. Visitors are charged 10 yuan (1.6 U.S. dollars) for entrance and another 60 yuan for photographing with the elephant, said Xinhua reporters at the site.

In one "handstand" performance, the elephant was driven onto iron stakes, lifted its hind legs and relied its body's weight on two forelegs.

Animal welfare campaigners have accused the zoo of violating a government ban on animal shows. The Nature University, an environment protection group, said they have filed a protest to the zoo and the city authority.

"Stunts like handstands, sitting and kneeling are unnatural for elephants and will cause serious physical and mental harms," said Hu Chunmei with the Nature University, citing her consultation with zoologists and vets.

The show also poses safety risks to the audience, as Hu said the elephants might run into rampage when forced into such stressful shows under scorching weather, while the zoo had not put in place sufficient protective measures.

In a reply to the group, the townscape planning authority of Tianjin that oversees the zoo said the show is a "behavioral training demonstration," which aims to promote knowledge among the public.

"We have not employed beating or abuse in the process, and the activity is not profit-driven," it said.

Attempts to reach the zoo for comments failed on Sunday.

China has observed boycotts and protests against animal shows in recent years, a sign of rising public awareness on animal welfare. Last year, a zoo in northeast China fired its circuses after reports that its tigers were tied up to allow tourists to take close-up pictures made splashes online.
Editor: yan

Not much different than a circus act really, although those are points of contention for animal rights too.

[Jimbo]

Latecomer to the thread here. I'd never even seen it before.

My CLF lineage (Sifu Primicias, who studied under John Lem) contains elephant techniques in the 2-man application exercises, as well as in some of the hand forms, although this lineage has few hand forms. However, our lineage has no 'elephant set'. And it's unknowable whether or not there are any similarities between our elephant techniques and those of HSCLF.

Speaking of which, Doc-Fai Wong has stated that he is Sifu Primicias' CLF teacher. While Sifu Primicias did learn some sets from DFW, his true teacher was John Lem. Sifu Primicias wanted to learn some more sets to gain a broader view of CLF. DFW wasn't even Sifu Primicias' first HSCLF teacher, Howard Lee was. In fact, he got his start in CLF under Howard Lee, who eventually left the school to John Lem, who's from a different lineage, circa 1967.

[hskwarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2XDqS1pXhM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJaZ4-6yY8U

[Jimbo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2XDqS1pXhM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJaZ4-6yY8U

Cheers, hsk!

I remember Sifu Primicias showing us some old films at his home of him and his early students from the early 1970s, including him and them fighting in the old karate tournaments (very effectively) including, if I'm not mistaken, the Ed Parker Long Beach Internationals. He even has film of him taken in the early '60, in his Kajukenbo black belt days, pre-CLF.

[SoCo KungFu]

What is the relationship between HSCLF elephant and that of village hung gar elephant? Any connection?

[hskwarrior]

none......