The real definition of "closed door" students

[straight blast]

Please help with this. In particular I'm referring to Yip Man & his closed door students. I always thought that it referred to his closest students that were taught more as disciples than students, learning a little more than everyone else "behind closed doors" as it were. But someone told me today that it referred to the students Yip Man kept teaching after he retired from full time teaching (due to illness) and after he "closed his doors" on his teaching.
Which is right? Are both right?
I know that all families of Wing Chun tend to believe themselves the sole inheritor of the complete Wing Chun system (two worst than most-but that's beside the point & I don't want a mud slinging match) so I'm not really interested in "My Sifu's Sifu learned from x, & he says this so it must be right", just the facts if such can be established.
Thanks!

[David Jamieson]

A "closed door" student is one who will be taught the entire system in order to preserve it in it's wholeness. Strict attention is paid to the material being taught and to ensure that all of it is taught without holding anything back.

A student who is "bai see'd" is generally considered a "closed door" student and is marked to bear the system with the passing of the head teacher.

Not every student is chosen for this type of training. For obvious reasons such as a lack of willingness in the student to carry a style or perhaps a personality conflict exists between the teacher and the student and the teacher withholds for some reason.

anyway, it is more traditional than anything else. You don't need to be a closed door student to have good kung fu or even great fighting ability.

You just need to practice diligently and correctly.

peace

[fa_jing]

My impression of the "closed door" students w/respect to Master Yip was that these students lived with Yip for a period of time, and he taught them outside of the regular class. Most Wing Chun websites have 4 such students listed, but W. Chueng also claims to have lived with Yip Man, and I don't think anyone disproved this. It's all politics and Chinese culture to me.

-FJ

[rubthebuddha]

agreed. what's important? is your kung fu any good and are you content with what you're studying?

if you can say yes to both while adding, "but i can get even better at both with what i'm studying," then you're doing what's important.

[ATENG]

i'm pretty sure "closed door student", or "guan men di zi" just means the LAST student of a teacher, since after his last student he literally closes his doors.

[EARTH DRAGON]

I will have to agree with kung lek on this one A "closed door" student is one who will be taught the entire system in order to preserve it in it's wholeness. \

A student who is "bai see'd" is generally considered a "closed door" student and is marked to bear the system with the passing of the head teacher.

many masters have different catagories for their students but only some every make it to the "TUDI" level (diciple if you will) and only 1 of those "TUDI"'s would be the heir to the entire system. This is done by not only generation name but the passing of manuscripts and full recordings of the system in full along with a tradtional ceremony of sole inheritorship.

Thier are many students who claim this title as it is a great honnor but you will also notice that they only make such claims after their master has died, when it cannot be proven otherwise. Such students that were a closed door TUDI will never brag or boast about it for they have nothing to prove to anyone, and only those who are jealous or trying to make a staement to feel higher up in ranks make claims to be closed door students to promote themselves or boost self esteem.