Countering grapplers

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

That would be why he'd have a very hard time taking me down in the first place.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

You know, now that I have been hanging out with these Kuntao people for a while, I really don't see modern MMA type takedowns as all that big of a threat anyway. Sure it's a nice tool against Muy Thai people or Boxers who have little take down defense anyway, but I don't really fear it much anymore. There are just too many ways to counter. There are other takedowns that are harder to defend against.

[mkriii]

Of course it's not that simple. Your opponent is not just going to sit there waiting for you to get behind him (unless he learned 'takedowns' during a one-day seminar, or was a crappy wrestler in high school 20 years ago and thinks that makes him a badass today).

Of course he's not going to wait there and let you just do anything. Thats why it should be done all in one move and done fast. You don't just sprawl wait a second and then spin around to his back. You do it all as one move. Believe me I know this works. I wrestled all through high school on the high school wrestling team. I know how to wrestle.

On a side note my fireman's carry was the best on the team and I could get ANYONE on that takedown. My nick name was fire chief. I would even tell the person what takedown I was going to do and I'd still get them with it.

[unkokusai]

That would be why he'd have a very hard time taking me down in the first place.

That's an attitude that will win you a beating as well.

[unkokusai]

I don't really fear it much anymore. There are just too many ways to counter. There are other takedowns that are harder to defend against.

Again, a very unfortunate attitude.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You know, now that I have been hanging out with these Kuntao people for a while, I really don't see modern MMA type takedowns as all that big of a threat anyway. Sure it's a nice tool against Muy Thai people or Boxers who have little take down defense anyway, but I don't really fear it much anymore. There are just too many ways to counter. There are other takedowns that are harder to defend against.

Kuntao has some very wicked counters to takedowns, though some are a tad to dangerous to "perfect".

[sanjuro_ronin]

A simple truth is that, any counter to a take down that you can drill and perfect ( as much as one can perfect anything) is gonna work, though the degree of its effectiveness also relies on the ability of the person performing the take down.

[unkokusai]

Of course he's not going to wait there and let you just do anything. Thats why it should be done all in one move and done fast. You don't just sprawl wait a second and then spin around to his back. You do it all as one move. Believe me I know this works. I wrestled all through high school on the high school wrestling team. I know how to wrestle.

I don't believe you know half what you think you do.

On a side note my fireman's carry was the best on the team and I could get ANYONE on that takedown. My nick name was fire chief. I would even tell the person what takedown I was going to do and I'd still get them with it.

On a side note, this nonsense supports the above conclusion.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I don't believe you know half what you think you do.





On a side note, this nonsense supports the above conclusion.

I don't think he realizes that the context of what he says is not that relevant to MMA or sumbission grappling, in which your typical fireman's carry gets you choked and sub'd in a variety of ways.

[mkriii]

I was always taught that when shooting in for a single or double leg takedown to keep your head inside towards his center and close & tight to his stomach to keep from getting a nasty cross face. Also, it appears that it might make it a little harder to apply a guillatine choke as well.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I was always taught that when shooting in for a single or double leg takedown to keep your head inside towards his center and close & tight to his stomach to keep from getting a nasty cross face. Also, it appears that it might make it a little harder to apply a guillatine choke as well.

Nothing wrong with that, its the fireman's carry that is a "questionable" throw.

[mkriii]

You know what unk......I don't give a rats ass what you think. If you think I'm full of bull **** then anytime you feel frogy just hop my way and we can see how much bull **** I'm all about. How do ya like them apples? I'll even PM you my address and you can show up on my doorstep and we can go from there. But wait......you'll have some excuse. Something like that I should come to you or some lame retard excuse. Well you know something.....if your going to call someone out and say they don't know what they are talking about then be prepared to prove it. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is all you have to do is the same. Come here, beat me, and thats all you have to do.

[mkriii]

Nothing wrong with that, its the fireman's carry that is a "questionable" throw.

For the street maybe. But as a sport it a good takedown. I wouldn't do it in a real fight, no.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I was always taught that when shooting in for a single or double leg takedown to keep your head inside towards his center and close & tight to his stomach to keep from getting a nasty cross face. Also, it appears that it might make it a little harder to apply a guillatine choke as well.

Reply]
This is why it is not a bright idea. The shooter will eat an elbow, which will be dropping down and covering the center. This combined with a step back into a slightly side Horse stance (seen in my Tai tzu 32 posture form), or a deep bow stance neutralizes the shoot quite effectively.

The sprawl is also just as effective.

[sanjuro_ronin]

For the street maybe. But as a sport it a good takedown. I wouldn't do it in a real fight, no.

In freetstyle wrestling its fine, in submission grappling or MMA it leaves you open to chokes and the crucifix ( for example) and a slew of arm locks.
A modified Fireman's carry that doesn't use both arms as much ( uses one really with the other just for "nudging") is better and leaves you less vulnerable.