Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 85

Thread: Sex and Chi (again)

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    2,223

    Question Scientifically experimented observations?

    What Science are we talking about? the science of Taoism?

    i have already stated in earlier posts that my views and opinions are based on expereinces that i have had and studies that i have STUDIED from several sources regarding the life essence of the body. As to who my teachers are. Thats really none of your buisiness or anyones for that matter. i am not going to get into a discussion of my teacher is better than yours or vice versa. i have been studying these ways since i started martial arts. i do not draw from ONE source i draw from many for there are inherent similarities to them all, Taoism, buddhism,kahballah,mother earth spirituality,hindu,western science. dont be so hasty to condemn what i offer as an opinion to my studies and practices over the years. have i said that i am RIGHT? No. i have said that in this one area of taoist thought that in my OPINION that it is a little off. i have stated why i feel this way, if i do not give you the answers that you wish it is because the answers i give are not designed for you or to make you feel any more sure of what you believe or to confirm to you that what i am saying is totally wrong. they are merely opinions and they are offerred. you want to tell me that i am wrong? fine. read my below quote that says "whatever you think i am or want me to be i am". and if i seem sarcastic and "droll" as you put it. i am merely playing to what you wish to express to me by saying that i am totally wrong and am stupid for thinking this way. that goes for nexus as well. and with that i will conclude. i am sure that there are other discussions worth having and i feel as though any input i give will be treated as it has been.

    how many martial artists and internalists does it take to screw in a light bulb? well 1 and about a 1000 others to sit around and say that the one could have done it more like them for THIER WAY is a better way.
    just thought i would throw in a classical joke in this context.

    Many Respects, the Willow Sword
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Human Realm
    Posts
    881
    The Willow Sword

    I'd like to offer my thoughts on this a little more.

    Kundalini yogas and the Buddhist Yogas all agree that Jing is finite and hence one who is sworn to these practises must learn to not only retain but move these energies back up the avadhuti.

    This thread is becoming a war of words, albeit interesting to begin with.

    ...


    Sorry for absense, lots happening.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    2,223

    Thumbs up Prana

    Yes it is becoming a war of words which i had hoped that it would not have come to that.

    Yes in kundalini yoga i know this, the second chakra having to do with the sexual center and also the color associated with it being orange(my favorite color for some strange reason) i have worked with. man i wish that i could email you. for there are things which i do not wish to discuss(for obvious reasons). my email address is whirlwindshield@earthlink.net lets correspond and any one else who wishes to please email me. i will admit that there are a few things which i am not clear on but for the most part i still maintain what i maintain. id rather not have a battle of words but rather a meeting of the minds with no harsh judgement and mouth boxing or name calling. i really do not wish for this part of the forums to become like the rest.
    how about we put aside our sarcasm and posturing and have a dedcent discussion or perhaps start a new thread and the subject?
    MAny Respects, The Willow Sword
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    St. Louis MO
    Posts
    188
    Hey Willow, Nexus, and RM,

    Perhaps it is best to put things in this light. Science explains much, but it cannot explain everything. Science is a western way of explaining things. Who or what declares that science is universal truth? Indeed, science cannot explain concepts of spirit, qi, supreme beings, or jing. Heh, unless you want to say that qi is bioelectricity, like Dr. Jwang Ywing Ming believes. However, whatever you wish to call it, qi or bioelectricity or life energy is refined from the air you breathe and the food you eat (fire qi) and from your original essence or jing (water qi). Fire qi is infinite because you draw it from the air and from foods. Prenatal Qi, water qi, jing, essence or whatever is indeed finite. When the body runs out of jing, the body ceases to function because it can no longer refine jing into qi, which powers the body and mind, and nourishes the spirit (shen). That was for Willow who doesn't seem to grasp the basic eastern concept or if you do, you just haven't shown it on the forum. It doesn't matter if your celibate and an idiot anyway, because if you don't retain or refine or whatever it is you do, then the body naturally releases sperm about every month through nocturnal emissions. (wet dreams) Now, I don't really consider sperm to be jing directly, however, original essence is used to create sperm. Now let me explain East vs Western thought here. They both have their areas of expertise. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't go consult some Qi Gong master on the finer points of Particle Physics. Its simply not his area of expertise. Similarly, I wouldn't go ask some particle physicist how to marrow/brain wash Simply, the West is not very spiritually developed. All we have had (until recently) is Christianity with a few Jewish and Catholics thrown here and there. Drive around in the Midwest and tell me how many Temples you see All Christianity and the others have going for them spiritually is prayer, which is just a rough form of meditation (when done right of course, most people just fall asleep in church that i've seen) Up until like 40 years ago anyone who tried to develop their spirit higher was looked down upon and even persecuted here in the good ole states. Look at the witch burnings, some of those people were persecuted because they had senses and powers that no village idiot would comprehend. Others were persecuted cause their neighbours didn't like them. So, lets look at the facts. Any attempt to develop oneself spiritually outside of the norm was oppressed in the states until recently. The Chinese and other eastern cultures however, have been at spiritual study for THOUSANDS of years. Now, I can dispute the findings of 100 chinese (maybe, those little guys are smart!) But thousands of years worth of them? Even you willow should concede they are onto something. Just my dollar's worth.

    Gabriel

  5. #65
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    St. Louis MO
    Posts
    188
    oh, and willow, please with cherries on top stop referring qi and spirit as the same thing...please!

  6. #66
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    St. Louis MO
    Posts
    188
    oh, and willow, please with cherries on top stop referring qi and spirit as the same thing...please!

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,042

    Gabriel

    Well said, and well defined.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,317
    One could say however that the mind is all that really exists and chi is just a manifestation that the mind uses to manipulate meditation. Just as we can say that the 3-energy centers of the body are not real however we can use them for spiritual growth. This is why the debate of the reality of jing being finite or infinite and little qualms over words only complicates our daily lives.

    One who constantly depletes their jing will never reach a level of spiritual understanding to comprehend the importance of jing energy anyways, so it is a paradox. Even if they intellectually grasped the idea, if they did not practice it, like many things it would drift into the back of their mind only to be recalled at dinner table discussions and meetings with colleagues when discussing who has a greater understanding of the spiritual realm.

    One should keep what they are working towards in perspective in these practices and I would be willing to say that one could attain realization of the self without dabbling in the mundane conversations of proving points and details that are far out of context of the bigger picture.

    - Nexus

  9. #69
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    5

    Willow has a point

    Hi

    I'd like to quote from a book, (my translation from finnish to english)
    "A way to health and well-being By Master Zhang Chang Wang". This
    book is about Yi Quan. One of the chapters is named "Questioning
    the earlier knowledge, quoestioning the questioned knowledge, and
    questioning yourself and others". (really, even though it sounds
    funny)

    The chapter makes a point that we should respect to the heritage
    left to us by earlier generations (masters), but we should not blindly
    hold on to it. We should be ready to question the traditional way,
    otherwise that way will become worthless and dead.

    While the amount of information and knowledge about TCM and
    Taoism is huge, we should not, in my opinion, lose our will and
    ability to QUESTION. Afterall Qi Qong should be a personal journey
    as much as possible, right? We should trust our intuition.

    So, Willow, keep up practising.. and most of all keep on questioning
    =)

    *goes to do some Qi Qong =) =) =)*

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    2,223

    Lightbulb Soul On Fire

    Thankyou.

    Many Respects, The Willow Sword
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    2,223

    Post To elaborate

    Let me again throw out some things to get the brains functioning.
    about the body growing old and deteriorating due to depletion of
    original jing or essence. we have several different species of living organisms on the planet that live a lot longer than we do. example:trees,,,,whales,,,,reptiles,,,algae. i am just siting a few. now i pose the question. is the original essence or jing of these beings stronger than ours(humans) or in more abundance than what we have? these beings with the exception of the tree deplete a portion of thier reproductive fluids to procreate, and some of these beings do it on a grander scale. am i to assume that because they do not have human tendencies for stimulating emotional "urges" that they in fact live longer and retain much of thier original essence?

    here is another one for you, and i mentioned this in an earlier post, this relates to Humans.
    it has been recorded in history of humans living to be 500-900 yrs old. in the texts of the bible as well as other writings tell this.
    in a scientific aspect, specifically:astronomy and physics, there is a theory out there that states that in the ancient past our solar system rotated at a slower rate than now and that our solar system was further apart than it is now, and that because of this slower rate the organic beings we affected by this and the life span was longer, and that now our system is travelling faster and actually spiraling in on itself at a faster rate that we are also as organic beings affected by this and operating at a faster rate and life time is sped up as well.

    PLEASE NOTE; that i am not giving out these THEORIES and saying that this is correct or right and that everything else is wrong. what i am saying is that when you look at a broader picture about what it is that we consider to be the essence of ourselves,we can see that it is not necessarily confines to just "sperm" or pollution or anything else that you might wish to tack on or isolate as the reason why certain aspects of ourselves are finite.
    anyway i am at work and i will conclude,,my break is over,,,back to software accesories and peripherals


    Many Respects,,The Willow SWord
    It makes me mad when people say I turned and ran like a scared rabbit. Maybe it was like an angry rabbit, who was going to fight in another fight, away from the first fight.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    3,055
    Blog Entries
    1
    Has anyone read Taoist Arts of the Bed Chamber by Douglas Wile.? Apparently, he sheds a lot of light on this topic by analyzing the texts that these ideas originate from. I really want to get this book.

    From a scientific perspective (I do have a B.S. in Biochemistry) I don't think that Chi can really exist.

    There's simply no explanation for it. The biolelectric explanation is not that good because the bioelectricity of the body is very weak. We are not "electric" in same way that a computer is electric for example.

    Most of what constitutes Chi can be chalked up as good body mechanics or the sensations that result from them.

    Aging is definitely not a function of "loss of jing." It is the gradual deteriation of the body by exogenous and endogenous toxins. The biggest toxin being oxygen itself, a by product of respiration.

    The fact is that as the body goes beyond the age of reproduction the body just kind of starts breaking down.

    That is because in the evolutionary game you are no longer necessary. Once your genes have been passed on to the next generation you become kind of evolutionarily worthless.

    This is why you see incidents of cancer rise as people get past the reproductive age. By the time you reach the ripe age of 100 your chance of getting cancer grows exponentially with each year.

    Aging is a very complex subject with many variables both environmental and genetic. There are whole university departments dedicated to this subject. But I don't think that anyone has shown correlation between sexual activity and lifespan.

    I'd say that more important is diet, excercise, a healthy outlook and a health environment to live in. And, yes, I'd say frequent sexual intercourse is part of healthy outlook .

    One other thing I might bring up is that the Chinese are not the only culture to have these kinds of beliefs about semen retention. It's just that they may be the only ones who worked it into their "medical theory" so neatly.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    5
    From a scientific perspective (I do have a B.S. in Biochemistry) I don't think that Chi can really exist.
    Chi has been explained to the western world as being blood, lymphatic fluids, hormones, and bioelectricity.

    There's simply no explanation for it. The biolelectric explanation is not that good because the bioelectricity of the body is very weak. We are not "electric" in same way that a computer is electric for example.
    I'm not sure what you mean by not being electric the same way a computer is, but we ARE electric. Nowadays EEG f.ex. measures brain activity, and provides us information of brain "state" and functions. Heart is measured with EKG. Etc etc. The point being that many highly important functions in the body are being controlled by bioelectricity.

    That is because in the evolutionary game you are no longer necessary. Once your genes have been passed on to the next generation you become kind of evolutionarily worthless.
    In traditional chinese thinking and Qi Qong, it is believed that being a human is very lucky indeed, and we should use the chance to "evolve" personally to higher levels of consciousness and finally "return to the void". Whether or not that is true, it's one of the fundamental ideas in Qi Qong.

    Your thinking sounds deterministic, and defines humans as just the same as animals. That I think is a mistake. We have unique features which are enough to separate us from animals.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,042

    hmmm

    I have never come across any texts that claim that to the west Qi has been define as such substances. In Chinese medicine, blood is blood, body fluids are body fluids etc. I would like to know where you got that definition from because it certainly didn't come from the Chinese.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    3,055
    Blog Entries
    1
    Humans are animals.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •