pt1: Lets nip this one in the bud: chi power/randy

[Turiyan]

After spending some time dealing with an annoying virus on the computer, and re-installing even more annyoing viruses in the form of microsloth software. Then being shocked about a death of someone I felt was special in my life... I really dont have much patience to deal with you little boys. I dont care what you say. What you think doesnt matter. Your incapable of sophisticated or philisophical thought.

The chinese say: "Dont talk to the frog in the well about the world above". But, one must understand that ignorance breeds more ignorance. The classic perscription for arrogance and ignorance is chastisement.

There is a doctrine that says: "An improperly asked question need not be answered". "They will not give you permission to teach them anyways".

But you know what the sad thing is about hecklers? They always know that for every knowlegable, skilled and intelligent person. There are 10x more in the audience, afraid to speak up or stand up for themselves. Ones like the people that lurk here. Afraid to post a message because of what people might think or say. Or they dont quite know whats right and wrong but they are easily swayed by a more convincing "personality".

Thats where hecklers and skepti-cultists gain their power. By making accusations. "Hey look at me! I'm cute and really really clever".

I once read about how to deal with hecklers. Challenge them to answer this question: "Tell me ONE thing you've done in life that you can say your proud of?"

Just one thing. Something that required creativity. Something innovative. Something that didnt mean just "showing up". Something that required you to emulate, not imitate.... Come on, lets hear it ironfist. Who else wants to take a shot? Impress me. Blow me away. Post something more than a one line pat, canned answer.

I just went to the neurologist yesterday. This was a 2 month follow up from my last appointment. And we discovered something amazing. Much to his shock and suprise. My previously "absent" reflexes are now greatly improved. Before they were flat, all around. Like most experts, he has no real answers as to some of the issues I brought up to him.

But what we didnt tell him is that i've been getting accupuncture treatement for nerve issues per protocol of world famous accupunture physicians. They told me they had one patient that was told he had to have his feet amputated. Out of desperation he went to the clinic and had work done on "extra points" for nueropathys. 8 treatments later he was walking, and had total sensation in his feet.

8, 1 hour treatments. My first accupuncture treatement was on the same day I had EMG's and my reflexes tested. 2 months, about 8-10 treatments and the results are noticable. Now isnt that interesting? You know what they do in china? They have you do treatments daily for a few weeks. Not every week like here. So in 8-10 DAYS, or should I say HOURS, we see such a dramatic result on the nuerological system using certain protocols unknown to most people out there....

Very intersting.... I know how hard it is for children to pay attention to one thing longer than 5 seconds. But try and keep this in mind. It becomes very important later.

Like I said before. The word Veda comes from the sanskrit root word VIT. Latin and Sanskrit are linguisticly similar, so its not hard to understand that VIT in Sanskrit means the same as in latin. VITal. VIT means "to know". The esoteric has always meant and been for: "For those that do not know" or rather "Those that cannot know".

The esoteric, mysterious and symbolic is only for those that "do not know". In the history of india, there are traditionally two "churches". One for those that know (exoteric) and those that do not know (esoteric). The latter is for the public. For the common people. Those that live the ordinary way of life. If you guessed this as recognisable as the term "YOGA" then your following things very closely.

The social-cooperative tumor you call "civilisation", The "owned". Are those that do not have the VITal information and cannot be called teachers, guru's or masters. Unless you put them up on a pedestal and call them such. Then they are your higher power. Its mans choice.

[Turiyan]

You cant teach what you dont know. If a teachers job is to teach. Who have they taught thats known as "good"? Religon and cults are based on the inference that the follower or initiate never has to rise to the occasion and challenge themselves to do anything. This is what it means to live by faith. You just have to believe.

Scepticism comes from the school of thought that nothing is knowable. So anyone claiming anything must be lying. Because the actor knows how hard it is to actually think. And is unable to gain power or noteriety in any other way than making accusations against others.

Its even better this way because like religons and cults, you can attract followers... Hmmmmm, how intersting. Gather the lumpen masses around you and point fingers at those that arent "like us".

The classical perscription for arrogance and ignorance is chastisement. I'm already working on a similar presentation elsewhere. So what follows will mostly be a simply a matter of a bit of cutting and pasting. And since the issue was brought up before of providing scans... Here's a interesting little scan for you:



Know what this is? I didnt think so. Starting to get the idea? You've seen it but never knew what it meant. This is an example of the interconnected network of physical, bio-chemical and electromagnetic centers in the body. Most commonly known as "chakra's". This is dogma however, and a gross oversimplification.

There is a concept called the triple world law. This is an important concept in the natural sciences and vedism. In the human body, this refers to the physical or mechanical, bio-chemical and electromagnetic, in that order of importance, system.

Here are some vedic quotes on the triple world law for reference:

"People of lucidity (goodness) become gods, people of activity become humans, and people of darkness always become animals; this is the three-fold level of existence. But it should be realized that this three-fold level of existence, which is dependend on the QUALITYS, is itself three-fold: lowest, middle, and highest, according to the particular nature of the acts and of the knowledge of the actor"
--The Laws of Manu [C12V40-41]

see next part...

[Turiyan]

QUALITY not QUANTITY. Tantra is the vertice, yoga is the horizontal. This two dimentional graph represents OF A CLASS and the horizontal, arithmetic, time progressive horizontal model represents ACROSS A CLASS.

"The threefold course of transmigrations, is the result of (good or bad) actions, (the manner of attaining) supreme bliss and the (rule of the) examination of the good and bad qualities of actions."
--The Laws of Manu [C1V117]

It is called -systemic- because its all interconnected. Like a 3D graph. Adjust X, and it effects Y and then Z. The image is that of the shape of a triangle. The base supports the top. But the top runs the entire system. Just as the brain runs the body. So does the "brain" of the physical and bio-chemical (very difficult to consider these two seperate systems) network in the body. The electromagnetic level is much higher, and consequently less common to see in the world. Just as people like myself have been proven to be smarter than 95% of the rest of the planet (their tests, not mine). 5% or less of the "body" is capable of this potential.

The pituitary gland is the master gland. Know anything about it? Be sure to interject anytime guys. Really, anyone. Feel free to elucidate on your vast knowlege on the subject. Maybe you can teach me something. In yogic theory, this gland is associated with or connected to the crown chakra.

In phrenology, an inductive science. The pituitary gland is also responsible for the power of faith or belief. This is important in the understanding of the occult or religous methods. Strong faith or belief will correlate to a strong "energy" potential of the pituitary. But remember, the pituitary is part of the limbic system. This is more commonly known as the lizard or reptilian brain. Remember the triple world law?

"(previously) I had shewn what must be the fabric of the nerves and muscles of the human body to give the animal spirits contained in it the power to move the members" --Descartes Traite de l'Homme

"Of these spirits there be three kinds, according to the three principle parts, brain, heart, liver; natural, vital, animal" --Robert burton [Know about the livers role in TCM for moving the body? Didnt think so]

"The vital spirits are made in the heart of the natural, which by the arteries are transported to all the other parts: if the spirits cease, then life ceaseth, as in a syncope or swooning. The animal spirits formed of the vital, brought up to the brain, and diffused by the nerves, to the subordinate members, give sense and motion to them all." --Robert Burton

These three types correspond to reptilian, mammilian and neo-mammilian. Each former under the latter, in increasing numbers. The reptilian brain is about following, obeying, forming social and cooperative structures.... The function of the limbic system in another words covers all types of AUTONOMIC activitys.

Easy to understand the maxim: "If it doesnt work for everybody, its their fault". Extraordinary results require extraordinary people. There is a conceptual basis as well. A moral and ethical framework. The pituitary is just one piece of the puzzle. Just as its a small part of the brain which runs the body.

Are you studying to be an endocrinologist? Are you even resonably knowleged? In the endocrinolic (bio-chemical system) The thyroid is lower than the pituitary, and is known as the regulator. This corresponds to the throat chakra. The regulator is the traffic light for the function of the pituitary to cycle down to the lower centers and trickle up in a continuous cycle. Oh wait, let me use terminology you can relate to.

Look at the pictures and and try and figure out how the software runs the hardware.... (smirk). Like all biotic systems, its a self adjusting system. But not nessessarily self REGULATING. If there can be disease and dysfunction, somethings not right. Can you say all the particulars in a biotic system, or in a human system or a superstructure are self-regulating? You'd have to be incredibly stupid or dangeriously idealistic to think so. It should be that way. But its not.

Only individuals think. And of indviduals is the "brain" that is ultimatly running the body. Not everyone is an intellectual. Some think with their hearts or guts. Others with more... lower functions. We are talking about theory, not practice. Ideal conditions dont reflect the real world anyways.

Now, the importance of all this BASIC introductory material is leading to the "point" that the resistance and load of the nerves is depended upon the function of the two lowest systems in the body. Like in an electrical circuit, the more resistance, the more load the circuit can take.

More load, more chi. More chi, means more chi pressure. More chi packed to an area means more density. I doubt you've felt the the "cotton" effect. Talk to idiots that take exstacy about this sensation. For them its a SIDE EFFECT of the seritonin and its effect on the nerves (look it up). Like constitutional chi kung done wrong, this is just another classic example of overloading the system for diminished results.

Explosive chi force to an area of the body means you can break steel or rocks. You really dont want me to get into descartean hydralic-mechanic theory do you? If so just ask and I'll oblige anyone that professes a genuine interest.

I might as well start cutting this short because I can assume no ones reading this far anyways. Lets see the kind of replys I get to this one. I cant say that i'll expect to be impressed....

The role of activity in producing feedback or results.... Think about it. Meditate on it. In india, the REAL yogi's have no lives. Fine in a society that created a system for these ascetics to live in (and who was behind that... hmmmmm) How can you call them individuals? Do they have self knowlege when they are persuing "egolessness". What rational self-interests are they pesuing? Altruism is self-lessness and a form of sacrifice. They are sacrificing themselves for a supposed higher ideal.

see next part

[Turiyan]

Its their choice. Its just one way. But those body exercises are for the most part, magically dead.

Empty practice and empty ritual is just that. Empty. Go ahead, burn some more incense. Pray to Kuan. Bow to Buddha. Read another book. Go to another seminar. Do some more tai chi. Suck some more wind. I really dont care. Are you getting results? Are you getting feedback? Just one more year. Another decade. Another lifetime. Keep looking for that tree and you'll never see the forest.

Thats what yoga is. The scenic route. This isnt tantra. So dont even try and confuse different systems for/from different people.

Most people cant even feel chi and its their fault. Take a chi tonic, breath the air, eat some food. Thats "chi". Running more juice through a circuit doesnt make the circuit run better. Our transformers and resistors are self-adjusting. But we have to understand the "science" behind it.

Just as we have to know the triple world law of auto mechanics to turn a stock honda civic into a rocket that can 1/4 mile in 11 seconds. The automobile has a mechnical, bio-chemical (gas, oil, coolant) and electrical system as well (spark plugs, timing, rotor). If you want to supercharge your system, you better know the system behind it.

It is VITAL.

If you can heal nerve issues in days/hours/weeks. Think about what you could do with someone that has a "normal" level of function along with "supercharging" the system.

If its accessable to everyone, its not worth the trouble. That fits the classic definition of a cult! People of activity are human doings. Not human BEINGS. Only people of quality. Extraordinary people, will realize
extraordinary results.

Just try and figure out the connection between the nadis (nerves) and the glands. How possibly can monks with poor diets have a functioning glandular system? Believe in a sexual peak? Then how can an old man have awesome chi power just through "old age" alone. Its rediculous.

So you guys want to mention the amazing randy and his misdirections. What does he actually know about science? What do you know about science? Who taught you? Did you learn by observation or through direct transmission from a teacher? Let me know. I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing "proof".

Thats magic in itself. Keep the attention off yourself and on someone else. Its called misdirection. Do you know the difference between induction and deduction? INduction is the class of, DEduction is taking away... Are you aware of how and why and when any effort to prove such a theory discredits the verification principle you use to prove it in the first place? Do you know why?

Thats what I thought. Are you aware that the axioms of logic, metaphysics, philisophy and mathematics are empircally improvable? Now you do. Bahahahahahahahahahah. Ahahahahahahahahahahhaah.

Now we found out who the real frauds and charlatins are. The ones that have to formal training in logic, reasoning, philosophy, metaphysics, deductive reasoning, inductive reasoning, empiricism, the scientific method or the natural sciences. Or, better yet, a reasonable knowlege of....

Galileio set a precedence for all scientists. You have to accept the unexptected and the unexplained and have a tolerance for ambiguity. Or your not a scientist. And any theory is also, thusly, not scientific. Proving that you know is more important, firsthand, than trying to disprove someone else.

Now... Dont you feel stupid....?

Oh, by all means. Dont take my word on it. Do your own research. Bahahahahahahahahahahhahaahha. Ahahahahahahahahahhahaahah.

Now, was there a witty rebuttal or post that I missed elsewhere on the subject of chi power that missed my attention?

"There is more than one way of accepting and spreading a philosophic theory. The guiltiest group, which has contributed the most to the victory of Kantianism, is the group that professes to despise it: The scientists. Adopting one variant or another of Logical Positivism (a Kantian offshoot), they rejected Kant's noumenal dimension, but agreed that the material world is unreal, that reality is unknowable, and that science does not deal with facts but with constructs." --Ayn Rand

Science and humor both build construct models: "...Build up a false world picture... Temporarily consistent to any tests he can apply to it. So he takes action on it. The falseness of the picture is then starkly revealed by the incongruity which his actions precipitate. ..False world pictures are facilitated by controlling the channel of communication by which he is getting his picture. ...The ease of counter-detecting is when different channels of examination are used simultaneously. ..A hoax is tampered evidence..."
--R.V. Jones, The theory of practical joking: Its relevance to physics, Bulletin of the Institute of Mathematics and its Applications, Vol. 11 Jan/Feb, 1975

"..and that, according to the rules of Mechanics, which are the same with those of Nature, when many objects tend at once to the same point where there is not sufficient room for all, the weaker and less agitated parts must necessarily be driven aside from that point by the stronger which alone in this way reach it."
--Rene descartes _ Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting the Reason and Seeking the Truth in the Sciences_

"Into three principle faculties - vegetal, sensitive, and rational, which make three distinctive kinds of living creatures - vegetal plants, sensible beasts, and rational men. How these three principle faculties are distinguished and connected...is beyond human capacity... The inferior may be alone, but the superior cannot subsist without the other; so sensible includes vegetal, rational both; which are contained in it (saith Aristotle) as a triangle in a quadrangle." --Robert burton

"From those versed in the three Vedas let him learn the threefold (sacred sciences), the primeval science of government and punishment, the science of philosophy and dialectics [mastery of self and words] and the knowledge of the supreme soul [ultimate consciousness/will/ether of consciousness]; from the people the *theory* of the various trades and professions. Day and night he must strenuously exert himself to conquer his senses; for he (alone) who has conquered his own senses, is able to *keep his subjects in obedience*." --The Laws of Manu [C7V43,44 (See also the 41 section sutra)]

[Water Dragon]

I agree. I personally believe everthing that people tell me as long as they are long winded and use big words

[MightyB]

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah ZZZZZZZzzzzzzz.........

Somewhere in the middle I fell asleep.

Some quick math: A lot of quackery and Idealism PLUS a touch of religious philosophies ADD TO THAT a little pseudo-science (not enough to make 'em question just enough to make an illogical argument seem plausible) AND BAM!!! You get a cult.

[MightyB]

I've never concealed the fact that I intend to take over the world

Follow me sheep, follow me!

[fa_jing]

Turiyan - besides being too long winded, you have so much sarcasm and emotional content to your post, that I couldn't make much sense of it. I can tell you have well-developed thinking on the matter, but remember you are communicating with others who are not likely to share your mode of thinking. Example: are you trying to say Yoga is a waste of time, or not a good path for developing Prana?? I can't even tell from your post. Although I do give you props for trying to take the subject material to the next level. It's clear that you are dealing with anger towards skeptics, just remember that skepticism, faith, and reason are all elements that occur to some extent in all people.
-FJ

[Merryprankster]

Turiyan;

Clean it up a bit. For all your lambasting, you've appealed to authority just as much as any of the people you wish to refute.

Distill it. Provide us with a bottom line.

IE, what's your point? You have rather a lot of thoughts jumbled up together that don't present us with a picture of what it is you wish to say.

For the record, skepticism does not grow out of the idea that nothing is knowable. That particular little gem is left to Subjectivism, which is NOT the same thing, and pointless to discuss in its absolute form.

[Mr. Nemo]

Christ, Turiyan.....you can't just throw a bunch of random $h!t together and hope by some fluke it makes a coherent point. Merryprankster was being polite, so I'll be honest: what you just wrote makes no sense. And yes, I did read all of it.

[Steven T. Richards]

I don't like to attack the character of a debating partner in order to refute his arguement (ad hominem fallacy) but, as others have said, you don't do yourself any favours by producing something which in terms of its ideational content being so mixed - would be enough to get sopmeone sectioned in the UK under the mental health act. Many of the psychotic delusions
I hear from patients are more 'sane' and coherrant.

I'm not suggesting that you are 'ill' - probably just upset a little.

[MightyB]

Let's stop beat'n up on ol' Turiyan. (He doesn't seem to have any allies). I've learned to let people live the way they want to live. Besides, what's the point? We can argue all night and nothing we say or he say's will change how any of us feel.

I want proof. Proof destroys fantasy. The truth hurts.

I always thought that the true goal of the internalists was to seek the truth. It seems that I was wrong.

[diego]

steve he has tlr info,stating he could possibly fit for uk psychiatric inspections,will not make a turiyan open up.

[Tigerstyle]

Mr Nemo,
Of course the posts make no sense to you. You're not smarter than 95% of the people on the planet. How can you even hope to comprehend it?

BTW Nemo, that's an impressive garage kumite record. Maybe some day you'll be ready to move on to back yard kumite where weather and unpredictable terrain really test you.


On topic:
I agree about posting a clearer version. I am interested in reading (and understanding ) it. The amount of content could also be brought down considerably without most of the cheap shots and "holier-than-thou" statements, too. (Most of them. Little bit is ok by me )

[Braden]

Interesting quotes. Ayn Rand seemed out of place. Was that a sarcastic joke? It made me chuckle. I'm not a fan of Descartes though. Mostly because so much of what he did was fueled by politics. Yes, he contributed alot. But like Kant, it's in the past. Have you encountered the research regarding the influence of light [through the eyes] upon the functioning of the pineal gland? Very interesting and potentially pertinent. Have you read Bohm's Wholeness and the Implicate Order? Off topic, but related to some of the metaphysics points brought up at the very end.