iron palm training from sand to steel

[wisdom mind]

when a stylist goes from sand to steel, does he/she continue usage of the sand bag for training or is it abandoned alltogether for steel or can they both be used?

dont worry about the dangers of practice and what not please just answer the question as is!

[EARTH DRAGON]

It really depends on what your teacher says, some keep striking the bag for years even though they have surpassed that level . It like saying now that I know applications should I stop doing the basics? I would have to say no.
PS I think you mean iron! not steel, iron has element properties that cannot be found in steel. And you should seek out although very rare are iron pellets. I was lucky enough to have been given 20lbs from my iron palm teacher. they are extremly hard to find. but a must to strike in a coldren. A bit messy with jow but it forms a paste that you let soak into the skin to condition the bone. If you strike steel you are missing out on the compostie element make- up of iron which the body needs.

[Water Dragon]

Now THAT'S some wild $hit. Are you at liberty you explain on the board or by private message?

[Buby]

I've also heard the same thing about iron. I've been told that some people actually throw iron nails into their jow. After a period of time the nail starts to decompose and the iron properities are let out into the jow. The iron nails were used to replace the more expensive type ingredients found in the jow.

Wisdom - Are you iron palm training? If so, please be sure to get the necessary info from your sifu. I'm not sure what type of iron palm you are planning on training, but the shhh can get pretty deep.

YKM has three levels of iron palm - external iron palm, vibrating palm, and cotton palm. Each level has sub levels within it, that go along with meditations and what not. Also we use a different type of jow and even take internal medicine for the higher levels. Anyway I'll holla at you tonight, we have a lot to talk about.

Catch you later on the messenger!



Take care,

Buby

[wisdom mind]

interesting clarification guys!

what are standard silver bb pellets made of?

i got a bag with that in it, maybe i need to replace the bbs with iron pellets as mentioned, if bbs are not iron.

BUBY, see message on Southern forum...verizon got my lines fubar

im on IM

easy!

[Water Dragon]

bb's are steel. I think you can find shotgun shells filled with iron shot. How long did it take you to get from the beans to the shot?

[wisdom mind]

im going shooting tomorrow morning so ill pick up some shells!

piece!

lol

ive been banging on sand/gravel bag for 9 months and am due for the upgrade, thanks for the info...the progress in my case is unique though as ive been training my entire life in other areas of the arts along with doing fingertip and wrist pushups, tree conditioning, makiwara board etc so beginners might have an easier or more difficult time than I, i never did the beans cuz my hands were already conditioned

[Water Dragon]

LOL, the same thing happened with me and Iron Body. I was already told that I "had" the first level so they started me on the second. Funny thing is, I have no idea what it is I "have" or how I got it.

[EARTH DRAGON]

BB's are steel but becarful becuse some filled shot can be lead, which is posinious and harmful to the body. If you do find iron pellets which is rare but try looking around at pig iron or coke oven factories. you should not put them inside of a bag but rather fill a wok and strike them directly. My student built me a iron palm stand out of wood and he fastened my wok to reccess into the top with a nice cover to keep out contaminets. realize that the shot out of a shot gun shell is way to small and should not be used. Instead just fill your bag with mung beans and strike it till they turn to powder. Also are you useing jow? it is a must for training.

Buby, I actally have never heard of that before and I personally would not mix it in my jow for fear of contamination. But thats doesnt mean that I am right and that other people dont do this, becuse it's just my opinon.

Water dragon, I would explain most things on this board but I dont know what it is thart you want me to explian.

[blacktaoist]

Yi Wu, The palm training methods these guys are talking about are shaolin school of thought. As you know there are different approaches then using Iron.

If you want to train The shaolin way, then you should first start with a canvas bag filled with Mung beans. Most Iron palm practitioners start out with Mung Beans because of their Yin quality, and have a cooling effect on the energy in your hands as opposed to Iron which have a yang quality. In my opinion should not be used in palm training.

I never use Iron in my palm training Yi Wu, and you seen first hand what I can do with my Palms. And I have been practicing palm training for years.

But if you do start Training using Iron you should go see Grace Ho in China town. She can give you the right T'ieh Ta Wan pills which are usually taken when training the Iron palm also the t'ieh Ta Wan wines.

Like I told you before, there is more to Iron palm training then just striking a bag.

If you want more information, give me a call to night or stop by my class on sunday. You know How I do. peace

[EARTH DRAGON]

Here is a good expmple of a awsome break by my ironn palm teacher.. this will show you technique and skill not strength or fake breaks with spacers and lifting. for this break is done by supension..... check it out

[fiercest tiger]

yes very impressive although not a very hard break. it would be nice to see a phoenix eye fist rather a palm!

whats his name and what style are you or him from?

[EARTH DRAGON]

firecest tiger you said not a very hard break? you cannot tell from the picture but when he starts the break his palm is touching the block! So I must totally disagree with you when you say that it is not a very hard break. He is not using force to break. anyone can do that at an intermedete level well not anyone but most iron palm practioners. So I can assure you it is a extremly difficult break. And have not seen anyone successfully do it. and I am not sure many people would try.

He told me aobut his teacher's teacher doing a vibrating palm which is where your hand never leaves contact with the object and you push chi through the block without lifting your hand. I have been told that there is only a few people in the world at this level.

His name is shrfu john newberry and he is my former kung fu brother and iron palm teacher. We are both shrfu's in 8 step praying mantis, however he learned iron palm from some else before training in our system

[fiercest tiger]

Dont get me wrong, i said it was still a nice break! so he never took his hand off the block? The way it looks he is using force and the other half is going flying across the picture so there is some force. Have you got an mpg or something i can see it done without hand movement?

vibrating palm break- what style did he learn the iron palm from?

[EARTH DRAGON]

Minumal but some force is used, however he starts the break with his hand on the block and uses what we call the wave motion transferred from the goround around the waist and out through the palm kinda like a bull whip action. The block does swing a bit but not from extrenal force but rather from the pendulum effect after the break. He has showed me a break that begins with the back of your hand on the block, and then you pull your hand back and flip your palm over keeping in contact with the block via the fingers. This is again considreed a high level break for you are not using a wave motion or external force but chi.
As far a vibrating palm I do not know what style it is nor the lineage. I have only been doing iron palm for 4 years so I am still just a begginer.