for 18 old men

[flem]

hua lin lao shi

i like that. i don't understand how you are holding- nevermind i just thought of it. the same thing will work with the left except the leg will be thrown away,awesome, thanks for opening my eyes. with the 3rd form kick you are right, the arms open the defense, the tech is nearly unstoppable, if the fingers score though, no need to kick, well, why not finish the job!

[SaMantis]

Hua Lin,

The double Gwa Choy's follow Dai Ma Chang Choy at the end of 1st Form. You move in and scoop the lead leg with your left and punch to the groin with your right. As you step up lock the left arm over the leg trapping it (locked over your shoulder) as you stand with the right fist positioned just under the leg (the downward fists position). Now retract the left (left Gwa Choy) and fling the leg up and over (right Gwa Choy). That's providing they didn't drop after the groin punch. I haven't tried this on anyone yet. Any volunteers Temple students? :-)

I've wanted to test that application for awhile; had to visualize the movement ever since I learned first form.

Can I try it on you first?

(Not being flirtatious -- it's just that the groin punch sounds wicked painful, I'd like to avoid it myself)

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

flem
How about the left arm UNDER the leg, stand and throw off (left Gwa Choy) and strike the face (right Gwa Choy). Actually I think that is a better solution because in my original concept I was concerned with the leg being too close the my head/face while throwing off. That's why I need to try it on someone and work out the kinks.

[flem]

hua li laoshi

yeah thats what i thought you meant because after the hands roll thru it is on the outside(the leg i mean). i've used this technique- like this using it stand up style against a staight punch- it kind functions like a chain punch only with gwa choy.


how do you use di heen choy? i originally used it as a temple blow using the 1st knuckle, but fairly recently i realized it functions well as a "rabbit" punch- useful against bob and weavers. incidently, along the same line, i think one of the most awesome yet overlooked techniques is the one in lok low that follows the sigle finger/ clear straight punch/fan che in the beginning of the 1st run. it seems intended for someone attempting to take you down and attacks the back of their neck -

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Di Ma Heen Choy would also work well with Gwa Choy as an alternative to grab/Di Ma Heen Choy to temple. Use it to attack the hand/arm and create an opening. Consider:

Opponent standing with left foot/hand forward.
Right hand Di Ma Heen Choy to opponents lead hand.
Left hand grabs opponents back hand (with luck pins it across lead hand).
Simultaneously stepping in to Lady Horse delivering Gwa Choy.
Follow with either side kick, turn/Chow Choy or turn/block high(left)/finger strike behind groin(pressure point) like Little Mantis and Fatal Flute.

It could lead into the whole series near the end of 18 Elbows.
Replace fake low groin attack with Di Ma Heen Choy/step up Lady Horse/Gwa Choy/low mantis block/turn chop block/Weong Chang Tui/Gwa May Tui/punch.

[18elders]

if you did land the double toe kick in some way, i think you wouldn't be able to land in the wo dip ma, your energy would push you back, try it on a very heavy punching bag. I think the only move for the other guy would be to get out of the way, side step etc and block at the same time so i don't think you would be in a good position for the next moves?

[flem]

18elders

i think the kick, force is upward, so the push would be downward, as in kicking a heavy bag that your partner holds away from you. i believe in order to do the entire technique requires you to apply the fingers to the xyphoid process- hence the opponent will be bent over for the toe kick.
as for defense, my philosophy is to move in on jumps and knock them on their back, instead of giving them the space they need to apply thier technique.

speaking of space, i think that toe kicks(single) are meant to pierce the throat more often than kick up under the chin- like a leopard fist to the throat. in this way they do not require as much room to throw.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Tam Hao Tui uses the point of the toe against soft targets like the throat. Jumping toe kicks should be directed forward attacking your opponent, not straight up in the air. Common mistake. Everyone tries to jump as high as they can. If I was fighting someone that tall I would take out the knees and groin.

I probably wouldn't try using the double toes except for the shock value. That's the kind of move that's great if it works but don't count on it. The follow-up technique would do the damage after you've brought his focus high.

[18elders]

that's what i mean, if you jammed the kick they would go back, thus unable to do the next moves. Even if you blocked it the force would throw them off balance so i can't even see it being done in some kind of 2 person exercise.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Have you thought about grabbing the hair (not hitting hands to feet) and kicking double toes to the eyes? That's a horrible thought. Or jump up/grab hair/pull head down/top of feet to the face? Or grabbing the sholders and double toes to the medsection? Any of the above, due to the holding, will keep your opponent in place for the follow-up punch.

[flem]

the hair part would be cool but if thats the case i would go with knee(s)- i guess the conclusion is that it is a good technique if you really out class the opponent and you want to finish with style. but wait, i saw a heel kick version of the tech in a movie once, the kicker purposely landed on his back and kipped up after- there's your answer 18elders- most likely will never use it but who knows.

[18elders]

grab hair, shoulders.
i think you would be too close to the opponent to either be able to jump up and do the kick, or be able to get enough power out of the kick.
Depending on you height you only have the length of your arms from you grab to your body to be able to execute the kick. I'n not tall so there isn't anyway i could pull it off.
Also if you grab him and you try to jump up for the kick, if he moves forward he'll throw you off balance and you could land on your back with him landing ontop of you. The only good thing there would be hopefully your knees hit him in the chest when he lands on you.

flem,
did you ever learn 6th form? How about you hau lin?
If so did you like it?
I thought it was the most basic out of the 6.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I was getting a little crazy on that one but I figure if you can hit your hands to your extended feet there's no reason you can't hold and kick at the same time. When you jump up your hands are breaking thru the guard. Should be easy enough to bring hands down to top of head, grab hair and kick. Anyhow, the way I look at some of the combos is that not every attack will be successfull so followup moves are neccessary. The fact that in this case you attack high then drop and attack low leads me to believe that the toes kicks are more diversionary (and a shock move) to allow for a clean low attack (more damaging than the toe kicks).

Looking at it from a 2-man angle don't think block, think evade. Remember the Cut Eyebrow in the second part of 2-Man?