for 18 old men

[7kicks]

I am still very confused about Wah Lum not practicing 2 man drills? Also no self defense what the hell are you freaks talking about? We do Line drills and break down the forms and break down into 2 man groups and practice the combat applications to all the forms hand and weapons!!! Maybe what we have here are a bunch of Wah Lum flunkies? who are using this lame ass history excuse because they couldn't ride the storm and stick with WL. Maybe they thought it was going to be an easy ride and found out that WL is not an easy system to learn.

Let's turn the page here and ask this question can all you anti- Wah Lum folks tell me that if this system is so fake than how did this great imposter Pui Chan manage to fool alot of Masters from other styles and alot of smart people who have and still are following him? I guess i'll just keep on being one of those suckers and keep with WL.

[flem]

i left WL because it is too big for the individual- the style is more important than the practitioner. i believe this to be the case with many chinese systems as there is a considerable concern with large numbers. i also believe that is also the reason the majority of kung fu styles have such huge curriculums. the japanese emphasize comparatively simple styles but rely on one strike-lots of power. the comparison of weapons between chinese and japanese systems is a perfect example the japanese rely on the dexterity of their weapon to cut thru anything whereas the chinese skills seem to revolve around many weapons and technique to make up for inferior tools.

i continue to explore my WL material but am most interested in tai chi-- i find that it as i advance it resembles praying mantis more and more

[18elders]

i'm glad you guys do that, maybe Nelson understands it should be taught.
I'm not a flunky, i was a sifu in the system, if you think i'm a flunky then the system is a flunky for not teaching the sifu's properly and the sifu test is a complete joke.
If you are taught the applications then give me 6 applications for mantis catches the cicada.
How about the applications for wah lum exercise #7?

[chrisreed]

i also was in wah lum for a time. though i still respect and am greatful of all my wah lum sifu did for me, i left. i left becauce i wanted to lern how to use gong fu to fight.

[NorthernMantis]

"gong fu to fight."

Gong fu??Says a lot buddy.You sound like one of those Bruce Lee fans.We do know how to fight.Why don't you come and try?I'm tired of all you posters.What you want yto fight?Then do it if not then shut up.

seems that a lot of trash talkers are getting bold and popping up left and right.I would think that your sifu's would teach you better than this.

I have a 7 star mantis friend that I occasionally touch hands with and he has nothing bad to say about the style I suggest you do the same.

[Pong Lai]

I would suggest you conduct further research before being so bold.

I have plenty of time, send a ticket!

As several posters on WL have stated, much of what is posted is NOT bashing, though questioning its history of a style that is documented no where else in the world except the USA. The cultural revolution destroyed much, but Kung Fu(written)history was kept intact for the most part.

Just answer the questions that arise with confidence not ****iness.

It is natural to compare and to be competitive, that is putting the "Martial" back in Martial Arts.

[NorthernMantis]

As several posters on WL have stated, much of what is posted is NOT bashing, though questioning its history of a style that is documented no where else in the world except the USA.

You fool I was one of those people saying that.

Originally posted by Pong lai

Wake up and smell thr roses, do your own research, learn Chinese, (your learn much more about what your studying) and perhaps consider another forum that pertains to your style, southern kung fu . The WL practitioner will then start to understand the forum contents. Obviously you are unable to particpate in the Northern Praying Mantis Section because you have NOTHING within your style that relates beasides a Name!

Doesn't sound ike questioning... it's more more like bashing.You're such a hypocrite.That satement you made was a stab at wah lum and you know it.It's not even disguised as a question like some people have.It's not a question but more of an insult.It looks more like you're looking for a fight.

Yes I have made lots of research on my style and it's not a
southern style .

Now you tell me since you're a wah lum expert.How is 7 kicks,a form with mostly kicks and little punching, a southern form?How is say lok a southern form?The same thing can be said about 2nd form,straight form,little mantis etc. Ho is it southern?You say it's southern but people on other boards are claiming it's modern wu shu because someone saw an inverted butterfly kick.Tell me why is it southern?

They have nothing in common with southern forms granted that we do have deep stances but so what?Do we barely move and take small space,with 1st form being an exception, like southern forms?No, they cover a lot of space like a northern set.Do we have short strikes like a southern style?No we don't,it's very long fist like.

I suggest you do research 'cause you don't know jack about you are talking about.

I heard people say wah lum moves like choy lay fut.Guess what?I showed one of my close friends who trained under Lee Koon Hung and he says wah lum looks nothing like choynlay fut and even started making fun of me for it.He said and I quote "man you guys move nothing like choy lay fut.Why do you move so far down the road?In our forms we barely move from the same place." and then he kept poking fun by saying that he could do a wah lum form and go all the way down to the gas station and get something for his mom.

I have a friend that does hung gar and 7 star mantis and even he says wah lum is northern.

My sifu did 7 star mantis before to coming to wah lum and she says it's northern.

I'd send you the ticket but unfortinately I don't have any money.Now Mr. wah lum expert you tell me why it's asouthern style?

I am and I have come out with confidence.I'm just tired of all this trash you keep spewing and then playing the innocent part.I have answered most questions given to me in the question for wah lum people thread in a respectful manner without losing my temper.At least 18 elders had questions you just have an insult saying how we are a southern style.It was you who came in with the insult not me.

I expect Master Shr doesn't condone this type of behavior.I bet he doesn't even know you're saying this,some kung fu student you are.I think he would find it interesting if he knew how you were acting.

[flem]

chrisreed


what are you doing to learn how to fight?

[woliveri]

Northern or Southern: I once performed 1st form for a high level Qi Gong Master and when finished he just said, ah Southern Kung Fu. I don't know why and was taken a-back. As far as I know the definition of a Northern style would be long, extended movements and a Southern style would have close, in fighting movements. This is a general characterization and each style would have elements of either depending on the history. I don't know how this master could look at 1st form though and call it southern. My knowledge is limited in this area so perhaps someone else could expand.

Other notes regarding Wah Lum: Still the question was never answered why WL allows "sanctioned" seminars with "friends of the school" but doesn't allow students to attend other seminars on their own. The only possible answers I can come up with is either a. Politics or b. WL is using it's students to help other schools financally. In either case the student's well being and advancement is not the main focus unless you want to imply that there is a 'c' where that is the purpose of these "controls", to guide the student. I don't think so.

Why I left Wah Lum: Actually I had never planned to leave WL but 2, actually 3, factors were involved in that decision. 1. I met two individuals who taught without holding back. Both of these individuals (one Chinese the other Vietnamese) held no secrets and taught for the love of the art. The Chinese taught me Qi Gong (along with his master) and the Vietnamese taught me Chinese and Vietnamese Martial arts. Also, applications and some fighting (as much as I could handle) with my ass getting kicked hard. Also, both never charged me a cent but taught for the love of the art. I still love the forms of WL but know there's a lot more quality stuff out there. Now however I'm on a different path and do not plan to practice external arts again anyway but the deviation in my path at that time was eye opening.

I always look for quality in whatever I do so if I were in Florida now and looking for a school and listening to these conversations plus what I know about WL now I would definately be looking at 18 Elders school without a doubt. Sounds like he is looking for quality as well. Not to say that Wah Lum is not quality, just less complete than what I'm hearing from 18 Elders.

Cheers!!

[18elders]

What does Shelly's husband think about it?
There are northern forms and southern forms,
leopard is southern, little and big buddha palm southern,18 elbows southern, 36 hands, master stick, lo gar spear, tiger fork , butterfly knives.
As far as your friend saying it doesn't look like choy lay fut, that is interesting because Master Chan told a sifu that it is influenced by CLF.
Anyone know any northern styles that have woo dip ma stance in it?

If you don't have the money for the ticket, i will pay for it for you.



Well said woliveri

[chrisreed]

flem,

a lot of apps. at regular speed. also we stay with the system rather than doing orms and then sparring with chop suey kick boxing. instead we use mantis. i never realy learned any mantis in the few years i practiced wah lum.


as far as being trolls in a cave: cave is a great choice of words. i think some of you guys should read " the alligorie of the cave" in socrotes' republic . it might shed some "light" on some of your situations.

[chrisreed]

master chan is well respected because your are told he is.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Thanks for the support flem but any challenges to Wah Lum can and will be handled by the Temple.

It could be argued that every style is incomplete or missing something. It depends on what you want or expect from a style. As for 'chop suey' kung fu, it seems to me that a number of well known and respected masters from the past have mixed and matched from different styles in a effort to fill in what they believed to be missing. This is not to be confused with the more current styles put together by students who jumped around from one Sifu to another without really learning one style completely.

Northern and Southern in Wah Lum? You bet! Are you saying that's a bad thing? Lee Kwan Shan mastered his family style of Tam Tui. At the Wah Lum Temple he found Praying Mantis and saw the value in it. Mantis hands and Tam Tui legs seemed a perfect match to him and since he fought for a living I consider him qualified to make that judgement. Considering that his life depended on his martial arts he couldn't afford to ignore techniques and styles that worked. In his travels I'm sure he picked up moves from a variety of styles including southern styles.

Is there Plum Flower Mantis in Wah Lum? How about did Wah Lum moves find their way into Plum Flower? The fact that Wah Lum has forms that are also in other styles only indicates a common source, not that Wah Lum took from another style.

I've been challenged to do some research and I will. Will the results have any bearing on what I'm learning? Probably not. The history is interesting but I don't really care who or where any of it came from as long as I can get some value from it.

If history and lineage is so all important then maybe the ones questioning the validity of Wah Lum should post their own pedigree!

[NorthernMantis]

What does Shelly's husband think about it? Nothing, it's just another style of kung fu to him.Master Huang has passed by class a couple of times.

What style of mantis do you practice again?

"If you don't have the money for the ticket, i will pay for it for you."

Good give him a one way ticket to Orlando.I never said I can fight him (give me a couple of years I'm still learning) just that our style can fight.Tell him to pass by on thursday's for sparring

Like Hua Lin said "Thanks for the support flem but any challenges to Wah Lum can and will be handled by the Temple. "

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

woliveri

"Other notes regarding Wah Lum: Still the question was never answered why WL allows "sanctioned" seminars with "friends of the school" but doesn't allow students to attend other seminars on their own. The only possible answers I can come up with is either a. Politics or b. WL is using it's students to help other schools financally."

Or could it be c. Master Chan doesn't want his students to learn from someone with questionable abillity, knowledge or credentials. If he doesn't think the material is worthwhile or he doesn't think it's rght for you then he won't let you go.

I've been noticing a trend where if you don't agree with your Sifu or he doesn't teach you what you want when you want you go somewhere else. Whatever happened to trusting your Sifu to train you as he feels neccessary in his PROFESSIONAL experience. Do you all of a sudden know better than your Sifu?