for 18 old men

[woliveri]

Not so bat boy.... well, I meant nothing by it. Could of said Bat Man, Mister Man, Cool Breeze, whatever. How about NorthernMantis? Better?

inot my avatar

Likewise, I'm not understanding that but that's ok no need to explain.

Whenever someone mentions something about wah lum you jump in attacking and then lauging at people becuase they get mad.

I think I've been pretty objective and fair with my comments outside of the ones I've retracted (two to date). I've made positive comments and criticisms about the system from personal experience from WL and comparison to after WL. If I wanted to "bash" WL you wouldn't see any positive comments from me at all.

Bottom line is I'm saying your not getting the essence of the system (as it stood from when I was in the system) and you all agreed and said that's ok, that's reserved for those who inherit the system. We have no problem with it. So that's it. I mean, that's great. If your happy, I'm happy.

Peace!!

Cheers!!

Happy New Year.

[flem]

woliveri

isn't the essence of any system the basics? as i i stated before, i have no reason to defend WL but from what i could tell while i was involved there, one can learn practically any physical skill short of flying.

northern mantis/pong lai

can't you two drive to a challenge?

[woliveri]

Actually WL has very good basics. They have helped me a lot in my later training. Basics are the foundation of the system. Many students can't see that and just want more and more forms.

Ok, at the expense of being called a basher again, I'm saying that there's a difference between buying, cooking, and eating fish thus being dependant on whoever you get your fish from and knowing the source of the Fish (i.e. Fishing). What is the saying? Bring me a fish and I'll eat for a day. Teach me to fish and I'll eat for a lifetime. I'm saying, for me, I have a different kind of relationship/respect for the latter than the former. For me there can be a lifelong bond for the latter that will never be achieved with the former. Trust will never truely be established in the former, again for me.

[NorthernMantis]

Hey no harm done.Happy New Year to you too

[NorthernMantis]

Oops I meant to say that I might add it in my avatar.

[SaMantis]

-----

"Basics are the foundation of the system. Many students can't see that and just want more and more forms. "

-----

woliveri, i agree with you. can't go wrong with good basics. And it's true, there are students who only want to learn the next form as fast as possible.

I'd like to learn as fast as possible -- but it seems like I'm slower than anyone else! well, I don't mind practicing basics.

18elders, thanks for explaining how all the styles fit into your system. I didn't understand that at first. sounds like your sifu has been able to meld several good styles into a more effective system.

Happy new year, everyone!

Sam

[flem]

wolivari

so you were unhappy with "politics" but not WL the kung fu style?




samantis

i don't know if you should be backpatting 18elders it seems he's against mixing styles and he has more interest in yours than his own!

[Joe Mantis]

Correct me if I'm wrong but did Northern Mantis propose a challenge to Pong Lai? A challenge to fight?

I hope not.

[woliveri]

flem, I'm not going to touch that one. I think I've pretty much said it as best I can.

SaMantis, yeah, I used to love basics. I'm a basics freak. I used to take apart forms and practice them as basics. We also used to come in the morning and practice just basics. Don't know if you still do that. If you want to be good in your kung fu form you must practice basics. Basics, basics, basics.

A friend of my wife's family from Vietnam trained for 3 years or so in Monkey Kung Fu? He told me for the first two years, everyday except Sunday he'd come to his Master's house and his daily practice would be to stand in a horse stance for 2 hours with some hand movements (kinda like scraping under the arm in WL) on each side with a short break in between the two hours. I'm not talking about a horse stance like some of the kids do (standing straight up). I'm talking about a deep horse stance.

He did this the first two years before learning any form. Try that over here and see how many students last.

[Joe Mantis]

FLEM

interesting that you say WL is Chop Suey.

I recall that a certian WL sifu who is still strong in the system
tell me that I needed to join a style that is pure.
It wasn't until later that I realized WL was chop suey.
______________________

to all

It doesn't bother me what WL does. I just don't appreciate the deception that and concealment which the members of this style participate in. I would have preferred that they would be up front with me in the beginning.


If a style wants to only teach forms....fine! Just be upfront about it.
It a teacher doesn't know or doesn't want to teach applications, fine just say so up front.


NORTHERN MANTIS

i HOPE YOU didn't challenge Pong Lai, and if you did I recommend you take it back. I believe that you may be in over your head with this one.

_____

[Joe Mantis]

If the fight takes place...
I got $100 on Pong Lai

[flem]

samantis

do you know northern mantis ? what makes you think he needs to worry? by the way pong lai gave the invite- atleast thats my impression

[SaMantis]

well, i'm pretty sure i've met northern mantis, but it was just an introduction -- at the october anniversary, I think. Sifu Tu knows him -- when I talked to him Saturday he described NM from head to toe!

I think Pong Lai was the first to invite NM to a challenge ... I need to follow the thread back to confirm it one way or the other. In any case the challenge would have to go through the temple in Orlando.

flem, I'm not backpatting 18elders OR calling him on anything ... just thanking him for the explanation. People can judge one way or the other. But it is strange that WL is wrong for being influenced/having elements of other styles and other schools are right.

Sam

[SaMantis]

BTW, that's Joe Mantis who's got money on Pong Lai.

If it actually came to a challenge, I'd stand with Northern Mantis, win or lose.

Sam

[mantis7]

Hey just to remin you all mantis is a 18 system based style I was chop Suey from the get go. So adding a little more seasoning to the dish may or may not be a bad thing.

THIS IS NOT A FLAME OR TROLLING JUST SOME BASIC FOOD FOR THOUGHT

Now as far as Mr Chan goes I have seen im in person peform and IMO he has skill especially in his advance years.

As far as not learing applications along side of learing a kuen thats news to me. I have aways been taught the applications of any manuver right off the back.

Now you can look at this in severa ways.

A> It is a test to see if you are willing tostay around and dedicate yourself to the school and your sifu.


B> It could bea money making schem to strech out your time training so as to keep income coming in.

C> It could be a mental test to se if you are capabale to figure it out your self

D> or he got you by the short and culies and just giving you forms and stuff to do and you pay him. He's happy your happy for a time period ad then you leave. you learned a coplue of forms and paid foe them and he has your money but you still haven learned the true ESSENCE of the art.

I have a question the Wah Lum forms are they created by Mr Chan or where they passed on to him.

I do seven star mantis and we can trace or forms history through the various factions. yes there are politics amongst us but we all pretty much do the same forms. The main argument is how many are needed. Some saw 40 will others sa they teach all the mantis kuens they Know ( My Clan ).. Now this is just a matter of symantics. Bt you can tell in our forms ( no matter what lineage it is ) are mantis forms becaue each form contains the ESSENCE of the system. ( either one two or several key ESSENCES)

As I have never seen anyone perform Wah Lum tam tui tong long pai ( I hope I got that right ) tht hasnt been traied by Mr Chan or belongs to his assocition.

Also i it Wha lum tam tui tong long pai or is it JUT SOW I ask somene who supposedly belongs to the WAH LUM ASSOCIATION and he was adament about it being jut sow????? Any answers on that one.

But I feel if you do not learn the essences f a ystem from thebegining what good i learing a bunch of foems. Unless you have several years of traiing i another style or a tyle simiar to the new system of practice maybe and I mean MAYBE you can figure it out but hey thats only MY OPINION.

Well I have babble on long enuff.. ( watch someone take what I have written out of context.

Victor