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Thread: Who Has Chi

  1. #1
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    Who Has Chi

    I have a question for all of you who practice Anyone of the Internal Styles.
    In particular Tai Chi. In the last thread I posted, toward the end,
    Someone said some thing that really made me think.
    How many of you have Chi to use your art?
    and how long did it take for you to get there?

    Understand, In Tai chi In particular all I have ever heard in terms of training is the slow form and Push hands, and Chi Gong. Which means you must depend on Chi to fight.
    Someone hit me back on this.
    Maoshan

  2. #2
    No that is not correct. Tai Chi is practiced in the manner that it is so that one can draw focus the energy. The longer one practices, the quicker this energy can be drawn and focused.

    However a practitioner can not what around in this constant state 24/7. At least not that I have seen. Therefore imagine that for some reason you are caught off guard, what are you going to do? ask your attacker to wait until you can summon & focus. Of course not, that's why there are sound principles of combat within the system.

    Does that help?
    A single thought is not a bad thing, Unless it's the only one you have.

  3. #3
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    Moashan

    We all have chi or we would be dead! Taiji helps to move and store, build it. It also can deplete it!!

    Chi is always leaving the body even when fighting, beginners even non martial artist has chi! Are you saying that only high level martial artist use chi???

    The chi resides in our body, make our heart pump, blood move thats why we are alive. Sorry if i missed your question!!

  4. #4
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    Well said!
    But does chi go bad? Like when you get sick?
    "I drank what?!?" --Socrates

  5. #5
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    yuxiang

    are u talking to me?

    ive never heard of bad chi but only weak chi?!

  6. #6
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    i gots tha chi

    my reply: first the background/setup

    i have learned tai chi sets from 2 instructors:

    the first - i learned when i was 15 years into other martial arts
    i learned to mimick the class for months
    i never felt this chi or had any further concept
    past its generic definition
    everyone else seemed to "get it" and had been training with that "sifu" for at least 3 years.

    the Sifu i learned only 7 postures from (nov) showed me each move in detail from the get go....within minutes i could feel the form, even though the movements were similar to the first form of tai chi i studied, this time i Really could grasp the heat and flow of the form.

    that is background, now a shot at answering the original question maoshan sifu aksed.

    i could say it took me about 21 years to grasp chi, this is because i only overstood the concept upon feeling it, and it was 21 years into my practice that i could feel and use chi.

    i could also say it took 7 years because it was 14 years into my practice that i started hearing of this chi, then 7 years later i learned the proper tai chi posturing mentioned above

    i could also say it took 10 minutes because i felt chi 10 minutes into learning proper mechanics from a competent and detailed sifu
    that could and did demonstrate the application and usage of chi in varying degrees or flavours. once i felt it i had a base to work from.

    i need to monitor and gather chi levels using tai chi, ba gua, yi chuans etc regularly (ie every day, throughout the day) and i do feel that development of chi is imperative if one wishes to practice physical arts into old age and to be a formidable internal fighter, it does take a "leap of faith" to get started in chi works but its well worth it.


    plain and simple. if you dont feel it you dont feel it.

    adjust your posture, practice more regularly or get a sifu that can guide you properly.

    word!

    yi wu

  7. #7
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    Exclamation Warning, repost

    But it's a good read. It seems to me that most people don't know what chi means. If someone told you to look for something and never told you what it is, I imagine it would be rather tough to find it. Personally, I became aware of certain aspects of it from the first year and over time, other things become apparent. But what really opened up the flood gates was when I learned bagua chi kung and than my whole body was awash of it. But chi can not really be defined as any one thing. This little excerpt from our website trys to put things in perspective.

    Chi Defined:

    The idea of Chi is fundamental to Chinese Kung Fu and Medical thinking. However, because of its new arrival, the English language has yet to formulate a word or phrase that can adequately define its meaning. We do know that Chi is not some changeless, perpetual substance everything in the universe is composed of and defined by. Nor is it the proverbial "natural force" or "vital energy force", for, although it is occasionally translated in that way, traditional Chinese thought does not distinguish between matter and energy. Perhaps we could say that it is energy at the point of materializing? Unfortunately, neither classical (the Wong Di Nei Jing) nor contemporary (the Shanghai Journal of Traditional Chinese Medicine) medical text attempts to describe the nature of Chi as a concept. Instead, they define or perceive Chi functionally by what it does in our bodies.

    The Chinese medical texts describe Chi manifesting from three sources.The first is called "Prenatal Chi", which is transmitted from parents to their children at conception and is stored in the Kidneys. This explains why children inherit their parent's constitution. The second is "Earth Chi", which comes from the foods we eat. The third is "Heavenly Chi", and is extracted from the air we breathe. These form the Chi that permeates our entire body. Chinese medical texts also describe Chi as having several variant aspects and functions. Within the body, Chi possesses five major functions responsible for the soundness of our bodies.Chi is the source of all movement, voluntary and involuntary, whether walking, thinking or aging, all depends on Chi. It is inseparable from movement and grows with it. Chi protects our bodies from the environment. Hostile influences such as illness are resisted. Chi controls change within our bodies, such as digesting foods into blood, saliva, sweat, and bile. Chi keeps things inside our bodies where they belong. Organs from sagging, fluids remaining in their place, and prevents loss. Chi warms the body. If you doubt this, just touch a dead one.

    Chi also has five primary types associated with specific actions within our bodies:

    Organ Chi - Chinese Medicine states that every organ has the same Chi, yet each performs differently depending on the nature of its Chi.

    Meridian Chi - Meridians are the pathways through which Chi travels to the various body parts adjusting and balancing their activities.

    Nutritive Chi - This Chi is associated with our blood. It travels within our bloodstream transforming nutrients from our foods.

    Protective Chi - This yang Chi regulates our immune system aiding in combating illness and disease.

    Ancestral Chi - This Chi's function is to regulate our breathing and heart rate.

    Remember to keep in mind that this is merely an introduction to the concept and nature of Chi and its relationship to the body. Chinese medical theory does not move in a linear fashion like in the West. The whole is always present and is refined with learning over time.
    Count

    Live it or live with it.

    KABOOOM

  8. #8

    chi ?

    there are some good thoughts(in particular counts) on here and some not so good. If you study tai chi or other internal system and it takes longer than a year or 2 to start understanding or feeling chi on a basic level that you can feel and explain to others than something is amiss . Also it is worth mentioning that there are 3 basic levels of chi not mentioned on here (i.e skin, nerve and bone chi). All have distinct different feelings.
    Chi does not go bad but does become imbalanced when you are sick. As far as applying it in fighting its not something you want to give a new student to think about, however you do want to devlelop a body mind connection(over time) so you can acces the chi on thought instead of doing chi gung for 30 - 60 minutes. We all have chi its just some have deeper awareness and ablities. As for the amount of time it takes that is reliant soley on the student as long as the material he is learning is quality stuff. Try this out. next time you do shadow boxing make believe the opponent is bigger stronger and meaner (maybe there is 2 or 3 of them) then do one of your strikes or othere techniques while the fear and adrenaline is there see if it feels any different

  9. #9

    count

    I must applaud your description of what chi is! Although I have trainined qigong for many years, and have tried to explain what chi is to many people in laymens terms, including western doctors, and scientists but could never nail down or find the exact simplified decription as you have posted above. hats off to you , did you write that?
    http://www.kungfuUSA.net

  10. #10
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    Cool

    I am the webmaster for our site Chi Kung International I can't take credit for the writing, it is simply the way my teacher teaches and the writing is contributed by all the students in our class. We have much more stuff but I haven't found the time to update recently. But much more is on the way.

    My favorite quote that I use when people ask me "if chi is real" is
    Chi warms the body, if you don't believe me, touch a dead one!
    Count

    Live it or live with it.

    KABOOOM

  11. #11
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    Fiercest Tiger

    First point.
    Let’s not get elementary with our thinking here. O.K.?
    Of course we all have Chi. It’s the fundamental force of the Universe. I’m talking about Combat Chi. from my experience,
    I’ve met tai Chi practitioners who feel that all they need is the slow form and Push hands to deal with any situation. (I’ve even met Ba-Gua people like that)
    Of course a good instructor makes the difference in any case. Especially one versed in good tactics.
    What I’m referring to is that, in a 6mo period do you feel that you have trained long enough to defend your self against a fairly good aggressive fighter? Hell, let’s make it 2yrs. On the norm is it possible for you to have combat chi?

    This is the one to debate.

    My opinion is:
    The tai Chi form by itself will build no chi. It’s great as a conductor, but not as a builder. Thus you have the auxiliary exercises, in particular the Qi-Gong. And at best what you get with this practice is good health. Combat requires Physical conditioning. The muscles must be worked. Without that you’ll get dropped like anyone else in a situation.
    Take two people, train both of them in the same method using the slow form and push hands etc. except with one of them you employee tree methods. Do this for a year. And bring them up against each other in push hands, which do you, think would win?

    Wisdom Mind
    You answered the question right.
    Through your previous training, you developed a reserve of Chi
    That way when a competent instructor set you up, you could almost immediately feel the flow.
    The point I’m Making is that most don’t have an inking about what true chi is. True, the heat or tingling feelings are some signs.
    But what most put across in their conversation is that they have An Jing or Mysterious chi. on the level of empty force.
    And not to dis anyone, Too few of you in this forum or in this country train that hard. Wisdom mind answered right because of the 21yrs of elapse time. Such ability, to only rely on Chi In it’s Yin extreme would take half a life time to achieve but yet most talk like they can do it right now. And if you can I’d love to see this. I make no such claim my system is balanced. I’m, striving for that end
    And I’m going tom reach it. But not by fantasizing.

    Maoshan

  12. #12
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    In Chinese medicine Qi is actually clearly defined as the interaction between Yin and Yang. When you talk about Organ Qi you are talking about the relationship between the substance Yin) of the organ and its metabolic functioning (Yang). When you talk about Zhen Qi, the "true" Qi of the person you are talking about the relationship between the mind (Shen) and the body (jing). When you are talking about meridian Qi you are talking about the relationship between the body exterior and interior (biao + li).

    When a person dies the process is described as the seperation of Yin and Yang, not the loss of Qi. Because if Yin and Yang seperate there is no Qi. However keep in mind that the relationship betwen Yin and Yang is a process not a state. Therefore Qi can be thought of as the potential influence of these relationships. When a person bleeds they lose blood, and Qi is said to carried out of the body with it, this is because the potential of the body is leaking out.

    So do you use Qi when fighting with Taiji? Obviously, its just that the more conscious awareness and physical structure are connected then the greater potential that you have to work with and so more Qi.

    The crudest level is muscle level, just sweaty meat struggling because the mind does not know the body. Then there is bone level, where connections are made deep into the frame, but it is not too responsive. Then there is Qi level, where the structure begins to be able to respond quickly to changes in potential as the engagement progresses. Then there is Yi/mind level, when the thought moves the encounter is decided
    "The heart of the study of boxing is to have natural instinct resemble the dragon" Wang Xiangzai

  13. #13

    count

    Just checked out your website and was intrigued to find out that su yu chang studied with my shrfu shrfu Wei Xiao Tung, my shrfu is Shyun kwan Long master Wei's closed door diciple of 8 step praying mantis. I also learned the Wu style Tai chi system from him that master Wei exchanged with Wu Ching Chen. How is su yu chang related to you ? please respond......I also practice medical qigong , gin gon tzu li gong from world famous Yen Chu Feng. I am waiting to hear form you .... your freind E.D
    http://www.kungfuUSA.net

  14. #14
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    Cool

    Check your PM's
    Count

    Live it or live with it.

    KABOOOM

  15. #15
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    a quick little side question

    not to take away from this post, but what builds chi?
    Maoshan said this...
    The tai Chi form by itself will build no chi. It’s great as a conductor, but not as a builder. Thus you have the auxiliary exercises, in particular the Qi-Gong.
    What type of auxiliary exercises do you mean and am I correct in assuming that you (Maoshan) think these "auxiliary exercises, in particular the Qi-Gong" are what build chi? What does everyone else think?
    Just wondering.
    only gin and tang guzzle out a rusty tin can, me and this mic is like yin and yang

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