what do you consider chi?

[md1]

what do you guy's consider Chi?. you have asked who has chi, but what is it?, to you. Is it just breath as the word means or is it the ability to break bricks?. maybe just a feeling you have when your moving around. Does a person who doesn't train in gung fu have it?.

Have you ever seen the guy's that are naturaly strong, and i know you have. they have never done any training yet have a gorilla grip and strength, do they have chi?

I have my own feelings on it, How about you?.

MD1

[count]

Just for your benefit Read the whole thread again though. There is some good stuff between the lines. Oh ya, before anyone says something. Jing and Chi are not the same thing

Chi Defined:

The idea of Chi is fundamental to Chinese Kung Fu and Medical thinking. However, because of its new arrival, the English language has yet to formulate a word or phrase that can adequately define its meaning. We do know that Chi is not some changeless, perpetual substance everything in the universe is composed of and defined by. Nor is it the proverbial "natural force" or "vital energy force", for, although it is occasionally translated in that way, traditional Chinese thought does not distinguish between matter and energy. Perhaps we could say that it is energy at the point of materializing? Unfortunately, neither classical (the Wong Di Nei Jing) nor contemporary (the Shanghai Journal of Traditional Chinese Medicine) medical text attempts to describe the nature of Chi as a concept. Instead, they define or perceive Chi functionally by what it does in our bodies.

The Chinese medical texts describe Chi manifesting from three sources.The first is called "Prenatal Chi", which is transmitted from parents to their children at conception and is stored in the Kidneys. This explains why children inherit their parent's constitution. The second is "Earth Chi", which comes from the foods we eat. The third is "Heavenly Chi", and is extracted from the air we breathe. These form the Chi that permeates our entire body. Chinese medical texts also describe Chi as having several variant aspects and functions. Within the body, Chi possesses five major functions responsible for the soundness of our bodies.Chi is the source of all movement, voluntary and involuntary, whether walking, thinking or aging, all depends on Chi. It is inseparable from movement and grows with it. Chi protects our bodies from the environment. Hostile influences such as illness are resisted. Chi controls change within our bodies, such as digesting foods into blood, saliva, sweat, and bile. Chi keeps things inside our bodies where they belong. Organs from sagging, fluids remaining in their place, and prevents loss. Chi warms the body. If you doubt this, just touch a dead one.

Chi also has five primary types associated with specific actions within our bodies:

Organ Chi - Chinese Medicine states that every organ has the same Chi, yet each performs differently depending on the nature of its Chi.

Meridian Chi - Meridians are the pathways through which Chi travels to the various body parts adjusting and balancing their activities.

Nutritive Chi - This Chi is associated with our blood. It travels within our bloodstream transforming nutrients from our foods.

Protective Chi - This yang Chi regulates our immune system aiding in combating illness and disease.

Ancestral Chi - This Chi's function is to regulate our breathing and heart rate.

Remember to keep in mind that this is merely an introduction to the concept and nature of Chi and its relationship to the body. Chinese medical theory does not move in a linear fashion like in the West. The whole is always present and is refined with learning over time.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Dear count, you beat me to the punch, I was going to ask you if I could cut and paste your wonderful explainiation of definng chi, for this thread but then as I scrolled down I see that you have already enlightened MD1 with it. I would hope that you would not be mad by me asking to repost your defination of chi to help others but of coarse I would ask of your permission first before I would do such a thing for I am way to respectful and I would never mean not to infringe on someone elses words or quotes but your version in a non- medical type of termenology is the best that I have read. thank you E.D

[count]

As long as you don't make money on it. Than I want royalties. (Note: the copyright on our website)

BTW: Here is a good piece on Jings Defined.

Peng Jing (Pushing Power)
Peng is the very basic "power". It is the ability to transmit power, strength, energy, etc, thru an "extremity" (one of the 7 stars : head, shoulders, elbows, hands, hips, knees, feet).

Ding Jing (Listening Power)
Peng is considered also as the audible energy because it is through peng that one can listen to the opponent's body. As the studentdevelops the core peng strength, work is begun on building a good connection and communication between student and opponent. Through the aid of practice to increase sensitivity, the student can precisely detect the opponent's power, center of gravity, direction, pressure, etc., as if actually hearing the vibrations. Understanding Power (Dong Jing) motivation, one can continue developing and advancing listening ability to the stage of under standing power. In other words, the mind becomes able to analyze and measure the pressure, direction character, speed, force, etc., of the opponent's movements in order to be able to cope with them properly. In most chinese martial arts this Power is trained thru Tuishou (pushing-hand) drills (f.e. called Chi sao inwingchun).

Zang Lian Jing (Sticking Power)
Through Rolling Hands Practice, Pushing Practice and practice in reversing the transfer of power process, the student develops the sensitivity and controlling ability known as sticking power. In other words, the student should be able to stick with an opponent in order to control him, attack, or defeat his attack. Usually with the initial contact between two people in a free-style fighting situation, the student can use peng to sense the opponent's hand (with advanced students the sensitivity will encompass the entire body) and there is an almost magnetic feeling. That is, the opponent feels as if he were stuck to the student almost like chewing gum can stick to the body. The special application of sticking power is the slowing of an opponent's speed and also the redirection of any kind of energy emitted by the opponent (a straight push get deflected without any apparent reason. This Power is also involved in the "unpushable man" trick).

Zuo Jing (Following Power)
By combining all of the previously described types of power, one can advance one's ability further and develop following power. This type of power allows the student to follow the direction of the opponent in all situations and respond accordingly.

Hua Jing (Neutralizing Power)
With neutralizing power the student is able to guide their following power in a yielding manner, in order to counterbalance or make ineffective the attacking and defending ability of an opponent.

Ce Jing (Borrowing Power)
Through borrowing power, the student is able to utilize an opponent's power by adapting it to purposes that are beneficial to the student's own designs. When an opponent attacks with, say, ten pounds of force, the student not only neutralizes (yields) but also borrows that force into his foot and reflects it back to the opponent, often at such an angle that the opponent is tossed away by largely his own power. In Luohan Quan this power is used at "An Jing" level for every move that appear as a block at "Ming Jing" level.

Ying Jing (Drawing-up Power)
Should an opponent refuse to transfer power, the student is in the situation of having no power to borrow from. In such a situation it is up to the student to cause the attacker to yield his power so that it can be utilized for reflection back to the opponent. This process is known as drawing-up power from an opponent. A lot of this may just be psychology and reflex.

Di Jing (Uprooting Power)
The ability to cause an opponent to bounce backward and upward, thereby making him lose his root to the ground, is known as uprooting power. When used in a more moderate fashion, i.e., by keeping peng in an upward direction to the opponent's center, this power will cause him to float. In Luohan Quan this power is used to prepare counterattacks and throws, usually combining the power of the arms with the power of the stance / hips.

Chen Jing (Sinking Power)
By reversing the practice of uprooting power the student is able to develop the ability to sink using it against an attempt to uproot him. Success in sinking power development can cause one's opponent to feel that it is impossible to uproot the student. The relaxed, connected body is the source of this.

Na Jing (Controlling Power)
Controlling power is applied during Rolling Hands practice or Free Hand practice. The student will try different methods to take over control of the situation and eventually lock the opponent into a position which will defeat him. The constant and skillful use of peng and connection are what power this skill. In Luohan Quan we all call this power the "trapping power" as it allows to lead the opponent in a way / posture that is uncomfortable and unstable.

Kai Jing (Open-up Power)
This is the application of internal power in such a manner as to cause an opponent who has maintained a defensive position for an extended period of time to open up his defenses and thus be defeated. Psychology and reflex in relation to the opponent are vital for this.

He Jing (Close-up Power)
In this case the student directs his internal power inward in such a manner as to cause an opponent to react by closing-up toward his center as a means of defense. In the process of closing-up, it is possible to trap the opponent because he is so drawn in toward his balance point that there is no way that he can move outward; thus the student is able to control the situation and defeat him. This is the perfect power to use against a bully opponent, attracting him to a "unprotected" area and then let him crash against a hard part of your body (knee, elbow, shoulder, ...)

Po Jing (Deflecting Power)
This is a specialized development of internal power. In applying deflecting power the practitioner is able to bounce an attacker to the side, or divert his force, to bring the student out of danger. Here the skill of controlling not only your own peng but the opponent's force vector (whether he uses peng or not) is critical.

Zhou Jing (Rubbing Power)
This transfer of power is achieved through a rubbing motion of the hands or other parts of the body. The motion used is similar to that of rubbing clay between the palms to form a long rope or coil. Often, qinna are applied with this for attacking opponent's muscles.

Fa Jing (Exploding Power)
This transfer of power is achieved through a burst of energy, releasing power suddendly and "overloading" the opponent. At "ming jing" level, this power is used for every "attacking" moves of Luohan Quan.

Ce Jing (Twisting Power)
When applying internal power in this manner, the student twists an opponent in an action similar to that of wringing out a wash cloth. This type of power is used to lock an opponent into a position where he can be easily defeated or just keep it secured. The internal version of this well known move different in that it relies on physical law rather than muscle power.

Zhuan Jing (Spiral Power)
Because of this screwing motion, this type of power transfer is sometimes referred to as screwing power. It is the base of Chan si Jing (silk reiling power)Mainly use in Baguazhang this power is used in every turning move of Luohan Quan, transforming a possibly weak posture into an even more powerful motion. Of course a good grounding and lower body strength is required.

Ci Jing (Cutting Power) or Heng Jing (Crossing Power)
This type of power transfer, is a clean, sharp cutting type of motion which is applied to an opponent from the side in order to disable or interrupt an attack. Used with Zhuan Jing this can produce extremely powerful moves which can inflict heavy damages.

Duan Jing (Interrupting Power)
Interrupting power usually refers to the skill of "leaving the jing in the opponent.... mainly so no return which borrows" your power can be used. This skill is very hard to train and requires a very trained mind.

Cun Jing (Inch Power)
Sometimes called short-power.... the ability to release great power with very little motion. The most famous martial artist using this power is of course Bruce Lee (the famous one inch punch), to achieve the maximum power, Zhuan Jing, Fa Jing and Ying Jing are required.


Zuo Te Jing (Folding Power)
Folding power usually implies the skill of folding the body and hitting with the closest body part, using fa jing. For instance, if an opponent holds your wrist, hit him with Elbow using fa jing or cun jing; if he holds your elbow, hit him with shoulder (Kao) or hip, etc.

Ling Gong Jing (Distance Power)
This is the power of supposedly hitting without touching from a distance. I've personally never experimenced this power, but I've felt "energy projection" (perceived as warm feeling moving accordingly the expert's will and motions). BTW before even reaching that level there is a lot of work with all the previous Jing.

[prana]

can I be mister anonymous when I add to this thread, please ?

If you keep looking, you generate a visual consiousness. Your thoughts become build on visual things. Same, if you keep hearing things, you create audio thoughts, and think on words or sounds from hearing. And of course, the same goes with smell, touch, and hence we build our whole world out of these few concepts. From computers to water, everything is an external phenomena built on our senses.

It is hard to understand Qi this way because you are using the normal thought process that is a causation of a thought process. It is like trying to find the eye by seeing a million things, or trying to know the ear by listening to more music.

I think in QiGong for the most part, people learn to control their Qi by forcing the breath, through the wisdom of their teachers, and with a lot of effort and perseverence and trust, are simply bring their mind towards something that they do, physically, and do it under the faith that they one day will. Until the Qi manifests big enough, then the practioner 'feels' the Qi, and can manifests this Qi simply by thinking of it.

In MANY meditations (not all) the practioners looks at the mind, and its labellings, and by this, dig up the underlying Qi beneath those 5 illusive gates. ANd hence, they discover Qi. Although this doesnt BUILD qi, it neither is the process of many meditations.

But continually looking for Qi, with external objects is really very futile IMO. Because it is like using your eyes to look for your eyes. It is very difficult to see it. You need to understand what you really are see (perceiving) before you can understand the eye properly, and this is the task of 'some' meditators.

Where as the Qi Gong practioner seems to grow the eye so much until it explodes hehehe, sorry only joking, please dont be offended.

Ummmm I have no idea what Jing is, so I won't contribute. But I know at least 2 others here on this board who has a clear knowledge on the meanings of Jing and its sanskrit equivalents, perhaps then I could speak of that

Ok end of my [anonymous] explaination.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Thank you , and no manking money is not my intention..... I wont publish it and sell it on the web with my secret iron palm reciepe
I would just like to show it to my students and some various freinds on the forum. again I have seen many explainations of chi even my own that I have wrote down but your version I liked the best. it grasps the concept without going into to much depth, detail and scientific jarbble. thanks again count