ATTN: Ralek

[apoweyn]

red5angel,

it's one of the terms used to describe filipino martial arts. it's a bit generic, in the way that the term 'gung fu' is generic.

it's generally associated with stickfighting by those outside the system, and very often with knifefighting by those inside the system.

single stick, double stick, stick and dagger, empty hand, etc.

the various arts are usually referred to under the blanket terms eskrima, arnis, kali, or FMA.


stuart b.

[grifter721]

Who the hell has evrer beaten a kung fu mster????
In UFC videos or some other mixed martial art aka full contact drivel. I guarantee nooo kung fu MASTER has ever fought in any ufc, or anything like that. Go to china where there are real fights between people becuase the laws there are different , and thailand where there are real fights. ANybody that says fight will go to the ground are talking absolute BULL****. There is no way that someone will withstand a shoot in if you kick him with shoes on mind you anywhere on his body especially groin, stomach area. BJJ is good but far from superior. Whoever thinks Kung fu Sucks, you have seen too much tv, and not the real tghing, or an awful depiction of the style. I can easily go and fight someone and say that I am fully A GRANDMASTEr at Judo lets say and get my ass kicked. Lets face it everyone witha lil bit o training thinks that they are the **** especially if they watch ufc and pride religiously.
Ralek watch K1 and see if anyone in bjj, or grappling skills win that. No flippin way that is where the heavyweights are, teh more serious strikers. A bjj can take only the guys without good enought striking ability and the ufc is not a good enough example to give becasue most of those guys are just big brutes. Bj Penn, and a few others are the only ones I say that can truly fight.

Not all kung fu styles are wicked but if you get a good eough teacher they will teach you soem ****. I learn Tang Lang with a genius for fighting. He made an already agressive style into a something even more nasty.
If you think that tv, and cdroms can teach yeah go ahead and be an indiot, I thought the same **** up till I was like 15. There is no way you can possibly KNOW those moves, and I KNOW THE GOOD KUNG FU PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM WILL BACK ME UP AND SAY "To know a move you have to spend a **** load o time and effort with it, and know how to do it, ie a good sifu to help you along the way.
No flippin video game is teaching you how to kick.
And I could type until I way blue in the face trying to explain how to do a proper technique, you have to have hands on experience learning ****.

Thats the end o my 2 cents.

[red5angel]

apoweyn, does it resemble any other art out there? Can you describe the open hand techniques for me?

[Ralek]

Grifter. The challenge matches i'm talking about were not held in the UFC. I'm talking about the GRacie in action videos. It has Challenge matches with no rules held in the school. You even see them trying to do their groin grabs.

There was this really funny fight with this shoalin Boxer with 15 years of training that claimed to be undefeated. Royce took him down and really embarassed him. Then there was this "modern wing chun" guy that got beotch slapped about 50 times.

[Tigerstyle]

"Juijitsu, is OK I guess, but when you learn how to beat them (as most in the UFC have done) they aren't much."

Actually, in most cases where BJJ was defeated, it was by opponents that crosstrained in BJJ or a similar grappling/submission style.


"watch K1 and see if anyone in bjj, or grappling skills win that. No flippin way"

grifter,
K-1 is a striking tournament. Grappling techniques are not allowed.

[LEGEND]

K-1 guys like Peter Aerts and Andy Hug are great fighters but they would admit that MMA is totally different. They would get beat if ground fighting is allowed UNLESS they crosstrained to stop a takedown.

[Xebsball]

I would have fought Ralek if i lived around there.

The other time he said he cant afford to come here neither can i afford to go there, so nevermind.

[Merryprankster]

Grifter;

Appreciate your anger, but it's the internet man. Lighten up.

EvolutionFist: You're remarkably well-spoken, and it appears to me that your knowledge is reasonably deep, but every now and then, you say something that just strikes me as horribly odd. I promise you that jiujitsu hasn't been "figured out." I hardly consider a style that more or less FORCED other people to adapt to THEM (ie how do I do what I want to without getting choked or submitted) to be merely "ok." The bottom line is that without groundfighting knowledge you are a sitting duck for somebody who has it, IF you wind up on the ground with them.

It comes down, oddly enough, to the person. There are several successful BJJ guys competing in MMA, but they will all tell you that MMA is different than BJJ, and that it's tough to win in MMA with straight, sport style BJJ. BJ Penn comes to mind. I believe Dean Lister has been successful, Minatauro to...Fabiano Iha has had some memorable matches, and the Gracies, love 'em or hate 'em, have all done very well too... every now and then you get a guy like Sakuraba who comes along and just demolishes people, but that's neither here nor there--it's something that happens in a competitive sport. You win some, you lose some... if we all got into streetfights with the kind of regularity that these guys step into the ring then we'd be in the same boat of winning some and losing some.

Here's an irony for you Evolution: We train on the ground a lot, to minimize the time we have to spend there. Make sense? Because of my groundfighting skills, if something happens, oh, lets say, blind tackle from behind by large smelly wierdo, I am, barring knockout on impact, very confident of my ability to rapidly reverse position, get up and run. Given that the ground is such a nasty place to be, we also train in ways to minimize the damage we take while there so that we may maximize our chance to survive. The submissions and what not are, to my mind, gravy... extras... I prefer the old tried and true combo of sweep, knee on belly, pound face, looking around to ensure I'm not getting approached, soccer kick the head, and bail ASAP.

Lastly, here's my theory on Ralek. I believe Ralek actually trains in BJJ beyond CD's and Video. The REAL reason he doesn't want to fight any BJJers is because he is afraid that one of us in the area will recognize him. It's not good form to run around challenging other people in a belligerent manner, and I think he's concerned that his instructor might get ****y with him....

That or else I'd beat him down in the next tournament

[joedoe]

Well said Merryprankster. Your idea of learning groundfighting to minimise the time spent on the ground makes a lot of sense.

[Water Dragon]

Yeah, Ralek trains. He's made appearences on other boards where his posts betray him. He might be as high as blue or purple from what I gather. He's also not as dumb as he likes to appear. If you ignore his classic repeat posts, he shows his intelligence. Personally, I think he's having a hoot at the fact that so many people here still respond to him. He probably can't figure out what makes him so interesting.

I think the truth of the groundfighting story lies at the halfway point between MerryPranksters view and EvolutionFists. It's not magic, and it;s not all that. For some reason, it's a part of fighting that was just ignored for a long, long time. I think we're gonna start seeing groundfighting for what it really is. Simplistic, but necesary. I also think we're already seeing the development of different "schools". People still generally call it all BJJ, but it surely is evolving along various different avenues as we speak.

[reemul]

Actually the BJJ'ers have not forced all others to adapt to them, only the contemporary, watered down versions of systems needed to adapt. I will say that they brought back some of the brutality of fighting to the Sport oriented MA community of the U.S.
One of the reasons our school doesn't do tournaments is because of how we train. We actually hit with force. At the time my teacher was coming up he kept getting disqualified for one reason or another, mostly excessive force. That is when his teacher decided that competing in this atmosphere was a waste.

To Ralek,

by my schools standards only, 15 years does not a master make. Nor does being a master mean your are invincible.

[LEGEND]

Waterdragon...I don't think he's a purple or a blue...I recently started rolling with YAMASAKI's and from the description described by the fight vs. Shaolin he didn't do the things blues and purples do.

[Water Dragon]

True, if the fight happened. There have been some nsterious posts on both the Undeground's BJJ board and intheguard that suggest Ralek posts there and is more experienced than he lets on.

[ShaolinTiger00]

He is Definately not a blue or purple belt. trust me.

Legend, you rolling at Rockville? See you there. I'll be working on muay thai but will be taking a Bjj class once a week.

[apoweyn]

red5angel,

does eskrima resemble other arts out there? well, it certainly shares some similarities with other southeast asian arts (silat or kuntao for example). it puts a high premium on flowing, and i've seen chinese broadsword and longsword work that bore some resemblance. superficially, they don't look much alike. but the ideas are the same, in my opinion.

as for the empty hand element, it depends. as i understand it, FMA empty hand isn't as codified as it might be. many filipino masters had backgrounds in other things. and that tended to flavour the empty hand. so pangamot (empty hand) tends to be a synthesis of some of the concepts of weapon work and whatever previous background there was.

take ciriaco canete, of doce pares eskrima, for example. strong background in boxing, karate, and judo. the empty hand work that i learned tends to reflect that. but, again, a high premium is placed on flowing and sensitivity, which i've always seen as common to gung fu.

but that's just my take. others' may vary.


stuart b.