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Thread: Horse Bench

  1. #16
    Shaolin Tiger. How do you feel about the fact that in san shou they never use any kung fu moves but they do use kickboxing and wrestling moves?

    Do you think this proves that kickboxign and wrestling moves are more effective than kung fu moves?

  2. #17
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    Ralek. san shou uses shuai chiao (chinese fast wrestling) for its takedowns and throws. Shuai chiao is the oldest form of combat in china (most civilizations had some form of wrestling) and is truly the foundation for any effective chinese fighting system. You can even see some shuai chiao in taichi. This is how san shou remains a chinese art not just kickboxing and wrestling.
    Kickboxing. well I guess Westerners can take credit for the punching as it is stripped down of all the "phoenix eye/chain punching" etc. things and left simple effective techniques.

    Ralek this is what I think about the difference between "traditional" kungfu vs. san shou (or muay thai)

    in a manner almost mirroring jujitsu and judo. Kungfu ended after the Boxer Rebellion. with no warring and constant testing, it got Very stylized. too much excess began to enter the stytems and forms that were originallytaught as a visual history became an overfull encycopedia containing lots of "what if's" and "magic strikes"

    meanwhile the students do not spend enough time on the core and truly important things. and each generation was losing more and more validity. (too busy with unicorn stances..)

    just like judo, san shou placed the uttmost importance of going live against another struggling opponent. where randori replaced kata fighting a resisting opponent is 100 times better than practicing a "deadly" technique.

    Gloves and padding have allowed these practicioners to substain minimal injuries and continue to practice with safe techniques. -safe does not mean ineffective!!

    sanshou like judo works because it is bare bone basic. it is direct and effective and still involves strategy and lots of skill to win.

    to practice these basic principles and also include the reality of street fighting tactics eyes groin etc. and you get back to the truth of CMA.

    I'd better duck, I'm about to get pelted.....
    Last edited by ShaolinTiger00; 01-15-2002 at 12:20 PM.

  3. #18
    So real kung fu doesn't exsist anymore except in san shou. Then that would make real kung fu to be kickboxing and wrestling.

    I mean look at a kickboxing video. Then look at san shou. Exact same thing with wrestling takedowns.

    Now compare traditional kung fu and san hsou. No similarities at all. Completley different.

  4. #19
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    So real kung fu doesn't exsist anymore except in san shou. Then that would make real kung fu to be kickboxing and wrestling.
    I don't think its exclusive to san shou, but i think its very rare to find it in any traditional school.

    I mean look at a kickboxing video. Then look at san shou. Exact same thing with wrestling takedowns.
    - I agree. simple effective techniques with gloves. san shou just has shuai chiao takedowns and powerful chinese kicks.

    Now compare traditional kung fu and san hsou. No similarities at all.

    - well.... i learned most of my kicking techniques from Shaolin (and you remember my kicks being pretty good )
    the shuai chiao techniques can be found in taichi and bagua.

    Most of the chinese systems have a core that is similar to sanshou. They just get to caught up in complex and unrealistic form crap. not to mention the lack of actual fighting to preserve this core.

    Things change and san shou is showing the traditiaonal guys that they have had their head in a cloud for too long. Everything changes. jujitsu got stagnant and judo changed it. judo lost its street credability and bjj replaced it. over and over again.. all things change...
    Last edited by ShaolinTiger00; 01-15-2002 at 02:17 PM.

  5. #20
    Actually i agree with you shaolin tiger.

    Emin Boztepe's students were all KO'd in san shou.
    William Cheung's students were all KO'd in san shou.

    All the kung fu guys are getting KO'd. This is becuase they can't compare with the real fighting.

  6. #21
    Kung fu has fallen!!!! It does not work in real fights!!!

  7. #22
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    No replies saying they use the bench?
    I'm very suprised.

    Anyone?

  8. #23
    Shaolin Tiger. Did you know that i'm going to be fighting another person on January 25? I am fighting JF Springer who is the U.S. representative of Southern Praying Mantis or something like that.

    Horse benches aren't anything special. You might as well pick up a chair or something and start hitting people with it.

  9. #24
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    Ralek. If you joined a BJJ,muaythai,kickboxing,boxing Club, you could fight every week and wouldn't have to beg people to come to Fredneck.

    "Horse benches aren't anything special. You might as well pick up a chair or something and start hitting people with it."

    you're right. thats what makes it an interesting thing to me. its a very ordinary, very common, item. Its more practical to learn how to fight with a chair than it is a broadsword.

  10. #25
    Shaolin Tiger. That is faulty logic. Horse benches are not common. Benches in general are not as common as chairs. You would be better off training with modern day chairs becuase they are a lot more common than benches let alone horse benches.

  11. #26
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    I'll agree that chairs are much more common.

    so in that regard it would be more "logical" to train with a modern chair vs. a horse bench. but if you already know how to use the bench as a weapon, then a chair would do quite well in a emergency.

    Ralek. I guess it is just one of the few things that I hold onto from a traditional CMA training. I still practice the form and it keeps me flexible (standing the bench on its end and kicking over it, monkey roll dives over it, jumping over it, good for wrist strenght too - which is needed for solid punching) Ever see a "strength box" in a gym ? basically a plyometrics tool. this one is just old skool.

  12. #27
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    Saw-horses are common on a construction site.

    So are clawhammers,axhammers,crowbars,sledgehammers,nailg uns,electric saws,chainsaws,jip-rock knives,etc.

    I would take Home-Depot-Do over all of the traditional weapons.
    Plus they are all legal.








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  13. #28
    Ninjas like to "use their environment". Isn't this just like when the ninja's "use their environment"?

  14. #29
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    LMAO.

    you make me smile big guy
    Fairfax Jiu-Jitsu

    Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, Capoeira & Mixed Martial Arts

  15. #30
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    to ST00

    Since your involved in San Shou, I wonder if you can answer a question: do you see a wide variety of fighting styles among the competitors? I would think given the diversity of CMA you would see some variation. Not that anyone's going to use alot of low stances, that would wear you out in a ring match. Still, I would expect more variation in San Shou than say, western boxing. Which is already pretty varied. Are joint locks/breaks legal, does anyone try to fight this way?
    Thanks
    -FJ

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