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Thread: Question about Hung Gar and Butterfly Palm

  1. #1
    MoiFah Guest

    Question about Hung Gar and Butterfly Palm

    I have a question about the Butterfly Palm form, as used in Hung Gar. Is it a common form? I've heard of five animals, lau gar kuen, gung gee fuk foo kuen, etc. but not Butterfly Palm.
    Also, it looks more like a N. Shaolin style than the Hung Gar I've seen...was it passed down from the Northern temple to the Southern? Or is it not based on the northern styles at all? I witnessed a demonstration not long ago, and was surprised to see many northern style kicks and a little more "flowery" hand techniques. Just wondered if it's commonly taught in Hung Gar, or if it was a special family kuen style.

  2. #2
    Subitai Guest

    Butterfly palm


    From what I know, Sui Ying the Wife of Chiu Kao helped to develop this set.

    (I could be wrong and Hung Gar has been touchy w/ the people on this forum as of late, so I'll admit that this is all that I know at this time.)

    I heard the reason for it's creation was to help develop more speed. Very much like some lineages require Lau Gar to be fast(done in 40 secs) It is a combination of Northern Shaolin and HG.

    Whatever the reasons, I like the set and to each his own.

    take care,

  3. #3
    Je Lei Sifu Guest

    Wu Dip Jeung (Butterfly Palms).


    I have heard the same... that this set was created by Chui Kau and his wife Sui Ying. How true it is, I am not sure. Although I have not seen any other branch, but those that extend from the Chui Family perform that set, it is hard to say what is true with the present disturbance which is going on. And since I am from the Tang Fung Hung Ga Family and we do not perform this set, I will not make further references to who created what.


    The Butterfly palm technique is a common technique which is used in Hung Ga and many other styles of southern gung fu. However this technique is not flowery, but it is very powerful when used and trained correctly.


    Je Lei Sifu [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

    The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger

  4. #4
    MoiFah Guest
    Thank you both for your replies.

    Je Lei Sifu, when I said that the butterfly palm form I witnessed looked flowery, I did not mean to imply that it was a weak or inferior form. Quite the contrary, it seemed to be a very powerful form which obviously takes much skill to perfect. Likewise, I did not try to start/fuel any ongoing debate on Hung Gar. I am, in fact, a student of a northern style, but am interested in many other styles of kung fu, thus I came here with my question. Thanks again for your answers.

  5. #5
    Paul Skrypichayko Guest
    Subitai, I think it was one person from your school who spoke with Chiu Wei, and learned that the form came from Lam Sai Wing, who in turn may have learned it from the Hong Kong Jing Mo (Jing Wu).

    I also practice this form, but my version does not seem very "northern" or flashy. Also, the version taught by Chiu Chi Ling, and the version done by his family 50 years ago is pretty different. It could be a combination of northern and southern though.

    As far as I know, Lam Sai Wing's students all have this form in their curriculum

  6. #6
    hasayfu Guest
    I was the one who posted that Chiu Wai told me that Butterfly Palms comes from LSW's time at Ching Mo. Subitai was repeating what our Sifu told us about the set. I don't believe that Lum Jo's line does this set but I can't be sure.

    As for northern flavor, It's got some very clear hung gar moves in it but it also has some jumping and leg work not usually found in Hung Gar.

    Finally, I've seen Chiu Chi Ling demo this set live and he appears to "Canto-wood" his performance. By this, I mean it appears more flashy then when I've seen him demonstrating individual movements privately. Of course, I've never spoken to him about it so I don't know if that's the way he teaches it or not. If you look at Andreas Garski, a Chiu Chi Ling student, his Hung Gar is very good and looks closer to Chiu Wai then what Chiu Chi Ling demos.

  7. #7
    Je Lei Sifu Guest

    My Friend

    MoiFah, My Friend

    I apologized to you my friend, if I made it seem as though I was bothered by the statement of the butterfly palms being flowery. That was not my intentions. I was just trying to let you know that although the set may have a flowery look, the technique in itself is very powerful. I did not take you statement as a "dis" to Hung Ga at all.

    Unfortunately, we are unable to see each others expression or hear the tone of each others voice, in order to understand what the meaning of these types of words are.

    No malice intended, and none taken.


    Je Lei Sifu [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

    The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger

  8. #8
    molum_jr Guest
    I don't believe that Lum Jo has Wudip Cheong in their curriculum, but it is generally accepted as part of the sub minor sets (Lau Gar, Jeet Cheong, Mui Far Kuens) of Hung Gar systems of LSW's student.

    Apparently in the old HK days, one would learn Gung Gee Fook Fu Kuen,one or two of the sub minor sets, a weapon or two and open their own kwoon. If you had a student that desired to learn more, you would refer him to a fellow classmate or to your own teacher for more advance instructions. This is what my Sisuk told me... In other words, at that time, it wasn't the quantity but the quality of what you knew.

    But I digresssss... HaySayFu or Paul, could you direct the fellow posters to the URL where they can actually see the quicktime mov of wudip cheong? It is on a tiny screen, but a very, very interesting set. By the way, who is performing tiger/crane set on the ram movie video? It isn't Lum Jo is it?

  9. #9
    CPS Guest

    Butterfly palm movie

    The movie of the butterfly palm can be found on photo&video page, movie "Andreas Garski".
    About the Fu Hok RM. It's from HK television in the late 1970's. The Lam Jo school performed several sets (lau ga, broadsword, spear, fu hok partner form). The person performing Fu Hok was the only one NOT wearing student clothes (black with white buttons), so it might very well be Lam Jo.

    [This message was edited by Patrick Chiu on 10-14-00 at 07:54 AM.]

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