Southern Mantis compared to Wing Chun

[cha kuen]

I've seen a few clips of Gin Foon Mark doing southern mantis. I remember seeing that southern mantis has chi sao identical to wing chun's sticky hand excercise. Is it exactly the same or are there differnces in the chi sao excercise? How many hand forms are in southern mantis? Any info is appreciated. thanks

in fighting i'll pick sm any day over ving stun, but thats my opinion. similarites maybe centerline but most southern systems control and dominate centerline.

peace

[cha kuen]

But southern mantis and wing chun are both southern styles. I dont understand your last statement..?

[Fubokuen]

Yeah, I think he's saying what they have in common they also have in common with other South Hand arts.

I personally don't feel WC has much in common with these other systems. There's a different stance and upper posture and even the handwork isn't that similar.

fu bu kuen--correctamundo!

[WongFeHung]

Actually, there are more similarities than differences, but that also depends upon the Sifu. My Sifu taught both Wing Chun and Hung gar and they being sister arts, are very similar. Most people mistakenly view Hung Gar as a longer range art than wing chun, and the hand techniques in the Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen are also found in Sam Bo Gin and Sup Dim Kuen as well as the wing chun forms. As I said, it depends on how the systems . Some Wing Chun seems very linear and jerky, and some Hung Gar schools don't fight tight inside, or utilize chi-sao, tui-sao, etc. To each his own, I suppose.

[WongFeHung]

ooops, I meant to say Sup Bot Dim Kuen-(can't count)

[Fubokuen]

Any similarities are external, IMO.

It is not the apparent physical moves that make a style, but the intention and direction behind them. No matter what "scientific" approaches there have appeared within WC recently, it does not have the complexity of South mantis. The comparison is quite weak from my perspective. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

southern mantis gou choy will destroy the wing chun guys pretty fast.

[vingtsunstudent]

since when does the complexity have anything to do with practicality.
if anything the complexity makes it longer & harder to learn & master let alone use.
fierce tiger, again this is your opinion but i must say that again i feel you are wrong.
if you could both give me your exact reasoning & where your knowledge of wing chun comes from then i would be willing to listen.
you have made very bold statemants without one ounce of evidence to support it..
do you really believe that wing chun is that limited?so what is your depth of knowledge.
vts

hell yip man [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
i personally think that the gou choy is more powerful and would easily break the defence of the wing chun style. that just my judgement, ive practised both styles and that my opinion.

where have you been lately anyway?

hows your sifu?

peace

[vingtsunstudent]

hey bleached blonde eyebrows hows it going.
you say you studied both styles, so how long each respectively?
i saw in another post that you said that southern mantis would dominate the centreline, what do believe that a system that is based on this premise would not be able to control their centre?
i think whoever you may have studied wing chun with was either not a good coach or you didn't listen & train hard enough in the system.
as to where i have been, i have just put up a new fence & am preparing to build a new gym for myself in my back yard(my new training area should be about 13metres x 8metres)
other than that i have just been training & trying to be a tolerant father.
vts

[BIU JI]

What else other than wc have you studied to be able agree or disagree with this about mantis or other systems such. You appear quite convinced of your wc's simplcity and pure **** grit to over come a more complex system.Do you choose wc because it's simple? Perhaps they've anwsered some questions your wc is still scratching it's head about. Is that too complex for you?

hi yip man,
yes i have studied wc, but it wasnt for me. i did it for three yrs many yrs ago about 15 to be exact. i cross hand with many styles of north an south, the straight blast got wraped up and i got hammered a few times. wc is good but i found pak mei, southern mantis to be more a complete system.

i think you wrote an thread once and said you studied pak mei under sifu andy in australia is that right, how did you find the traing and how did he teach the sysytem.

take it easy my bold headed yip man

[vingtsunstudent]

well, my knowledge comes from the fact that one of our students spent several years studing southern mantis, from which i learnt the first 5 hand sets & training drills(although at the time i learnt off him he had been studing that longer than i had my wing chun, i think he was a bit dissapionted that i could control his centre easily, esp. seeing as though he is also quite a solid rugby union player)
i have studied loong ying with a man who retired from teaching over 20 years ago(he is quite well known in our chinese comunity as being a former gangster, i was also his first white student & it took me well over a year to even get him to teach me)
when i studied for a while with andy i practiced jow gar(it was just something to fill in my sundays & to get a view on other chines systems)
although we discussed bak mei many times, the funny thing is that andy also knows a viet. version of wing chun that he keeps for himself & doesn't teach.
the thing is i know what my skill level is & i know what i like, as do you.
i am not saying that wing chun is better, unlike what you people are doing with your arts, i am just trying to say that it is just as diverse & practical as any of the arts you may care to mention.
i think you should all take a good long look at your arrogance before it jumps up & bites you on the a$$, again i am just trying to offer you some insight into a system that more than proved its affectiveness this century alone.
vts