Original Mantis forms

[Old Mantis]

Tainan Mantis,

—Also, how many sections in that old 8 elbows of Liang's manuscript? —

8 elbows is ONE long form and it has no sections.

In the 20s and 30s some PM masters split it into 4 sections (Jiang Hualong, Song Zide, Wang Yushan, Cui Shoushan), some into 3 sections (Li Kunshan) and some into 2 sections (Zhao Zhuxi/Chui Chuk Kai). It is simply easier to teach this way, after all the form is 8x8=64 elbow techniques...way too long.

—Does Liang's manuscript for luan jie and 8 elbows match those by Li Kun Shan and the one published by Jiang Bing Do? —

I can't answer this question till I see Ilya next time, he has many manuscripts and probably will have an answer. I'll keep you posted.

[Syre]

How does the original 8 elbows relate to the 8's in 8-step PM?

In 8-step there's an "8 elbows" too, but it's really only 8 elbows. There are other 8's such as 8 stances, 8 palms, 8 hands, 8 blocks, etc.

It may be (and probably is) that more advanced levels have more elbows, but I'm curious about how these all relate.

[EARTH DRAGON]

The eight elbows that they are speaking of is a form, not to be confused with the 8 elbows of the 8's as first learned in the green sash i.e horizontal, vertical down etc.. etc

[MightyB]

I asked my Sihing about Lan Jeet.

It's taught as one of the advanced forms in my school. I haven't been taught it yet.

I didn't get a chance to ask my Sifu about Baat Jow yet.

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Funny how 8's seem to come up a lot. In Wah Lum we have 8 basic stances, 8 basic punches, 8 basic kicks, an exercise called 8 Chain Punch, 16 Hands (2x8).

I still haven't seen any reference to Bung Bo, Lan Jeet and Baat Jow in Wah Lum yet but that doesn't mean we don't have them. Maybe I could prove myself worthy somehow and be one of the few to learn them.

[Tainan Mantis]

Hua Lin Laoshr,
Did you know that Big Mantis is beng bu?

[Syre]

How about footwork... is the monkey-style footwork in Mantis the same as or similar to the footwork in Monkey-Style Kung Fu, or is it just another set of footwork also based on observing monkeys in the wild?

How has the footwork changed in the various styles of Mantis over the years?

Is 8-Step the only variation of Mantis which has modified the footwork from the original monkey-style, or have the others also modified the footwork?

Any comments on this?

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Tainan
I didn't know that other than from another one of your posts indicating you thought Big Mantis was Wah Lum's Bung Bo. I haven't asked about it and have to get through 5th Form before I learn it.

[yu shan]

Tainan Mantis
Interesting Wah Lums Big Mantis is Beng Bu, never heard this. I was fortunate to have been taught 2 versions, P. Chans & Chan Wan Chings. Could you explain , I`m going over 7* and can`t even see the simis. Sorry bout the ignorance.

Hua Lin
Isn`t the #8 a Lucky number?

[Tainan Mantis]

This I have heard from three Wah Lum sifus. At present one is still in the system and one is certified under CWC elder brother.

In an interview with CWC published in HK while he was still alive he says"...Wah Lum is similar to other PM styles in that it has forms such as beng bu and lan jie, but of special note is a form called little mantis, otherwise known as iron door bolt..."

I have not learned the Wah Lum beng bu, I only have a video of it. The first time I saw it I also didn't recognize it, but after watching closely I saw beng bu. Some aspects are similar to 7* and some are similar to TJPM.

The kung fu cousin of Chan Poi's who studied with the head instructor of Wah Lum Canton branch (CWC elder brother) has told me Wah Lum contains the 3 Wang Lang forms, beng bu, lan jie and 8 Elbows(no relation to 18 elbows).

I asked if his beng bu has 3 jump kicks in the first route to which he says yes.
In 7* beng bu there is a front kick in first route 2 man that usually isn't taught in the solo version. The Wah Lum takes that one kick and turns it into three without disrupting the logic of the form.

[18elders]

if my chinese is correct your name translates to jade mountain which is what LKS name was before he changed it. Are you naming yourself after him or after the mountain in Taiwan?

[flem]

18elders

why do you concern yourself so much over names and who's who?

[18elders]

how's my good buddy flem today. I tripled up on the medication today so i'm very happy.
Actually yu shan is a very good friend of mine, just messing around with him as his name is after the tallest peak in taiwan, just happened to translate out to lks real name.
Sorry to upset you, would you like me to send you some of my medication?

[yu shan]

Tainan Mantis

Thank you for the info on Big Mantis. It and Lil Mantis, are to me, two of the nicest Wah Lum forms! There is definetely an Explosive flavor to them both. Since I do know 7* Beng Bu, I can kind of see some of the same apps/movements. My Shrfu has not taught me the two person yet,I`m sure I will discover more sutle simis from there.You have to admit though , WL`s Beng Bu is quite differant, more so than other BB versions. If WL has these 3 Mantis forms, Why doesn`t anyone know the other two? I see hints of mantis all thru WL, but that being said,I see predominently southern Hong Kong gong fu. I am not saying this is a bad thing, the mixture is quite Dynamic.
I was told by one of my Shrfus(and I was Lucky to have Two of the Best) that forms 1 thru 6 are merely training forms, and that I would never see the real Mantis forms of WL! Out of these 6 My favorites were 2,3,and 5.
Pong Lai has opened my eyes and I can see the Mountain Top!

18 Elders

I`m studying a book on Taiwan and thought it Ironic the name of the tallest Mtn. their. Plus they say it`s very weathered and scarred at top. So 18 Old Men, you know my age, read between the lines. Ha Ha!! Plus I wanted to push your buttons a bit. Oh yea, what`s wrong with idealizing a Famous escort? God I hope you`ve taking your medicine! So O, what do you think about what Tainan said about 3 Wang Lang forms in WL?

Hua Lin

Are you learning 5th form now? Notice how it starts out looking very southern? It is a very good form none the less,half way in you`ll have to take a nap.

Flem

Thanks for jumping 18 Old Timer for me, He needs to be kepted in check.

Everyone

I`m new here, so try not to bash me right off. I respect everyone, just trying to expand my knowledge and it`s kind of fun to read the friendly banter. I`m spoon fed and love it!

TRAIN HARD OR GO HOME!

[18elders]

now that you have joined the KFO we will have to call you the 19th. old man!

lan jie, 8 elbows in WL
They may very well be in other branches of the original WL but i have never heard of it in Chan Poi's branch. They may have never learned it before LKS died. From what i have heard after LKS died WL split into different branches and one was the HK branch.Those form may have never been passed on. I guess the best way would be for either Hua lin or Sa mantis or Northern Mantis to ask master chan about it.