Subforms of Hung Ga

[CPS]

I've heard of many subforms in Hung Ga (Plum Flower Style, Flower Style, Lau Family, Butterfly Palm, etc.)
It seems however that all Hung Ga lineages have different subforms. Which subforms are practised in which lineage?

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Plum flower style and flower style are not usually practiced by Hung Gar people, but perhaps you mean plum flower form (mui fa kuen)?

Most of Lam Sai Wing's students will have Mui Fa Kuen, Lau Gar Kuen, Lau Gar Pang (stick), Wu Deep Jeung (butterfly palm), and Sup Ying Kuen (10 forms/5 animals, 5 elements form). Most do not have Ng Ying Kuen (5 forms form).

I don't know about the other non-LSW lineages though.

[CPS]

Paul, thanks

Indeed I meant Mui Fa Kuen.

However I understand that are already differences between the lineages under Lam Sai Wing.
So I really would like to know which froms are trained in Chan Hon Chung and successors, Chiu Kao and successors, Lum Jo and successors, Ho Lap Tin, Frank Yee, etc.
So more a comparison of the current Hungga.

[WongFeHung]

Some people maintain that the minor forms were added to aid teaching to the masses, just as Kushanku was broken down into pinan katas in karate. I use minor forms for this reason as well as to focus on specific excercises, and development of certain attributes, such as footwork, faht geng, etc. The Moi Fa Sup Fu Kuen, for example, focuses on body integration,threading bridge,footwork,long bridges, and winding bridges, and also utilizes the drilling fist, and trapping techniques. These techniques are found within the major forms, but are extracted and focused on in more detail here.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

Well, speaking from experience, Chan Hon Chung's students train Mui Fa Kuen, Lau Gar Kuen, Wu Deep Jeung, and Sup Ying Kuen, in addition to the 3 core forms.


Has anyone on here ever heard of a form called "Chai Jong"?

[Je Lei Sifu]

Under Ho Lap Tin Branch, we have two additional sets

Gow Ge Lin Wan Kuen (9 sons coutinuos fist) and

Lao Sing Kuen (Shooting Star Fist/Meteor Fist).

Peace

Je Lei Sifu [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger

[CPS]

In Chiu Kao lineage exactly the same subforms are trained as in Chan Hon CHung's.
Does Lam Jo lineage also has the same forms?
I heard they only did Lau Gar Kuen? Is this correct?

Oh by the way. Check out www.hungga.net to compare the Fu Hok of Lam Jo and of Chiu Chi Ling. Chi Chi Ling's movie has just been added.

[Paul Skrypichayko]

I think you'll find that the only student of Lam Sai Wing's that trains Ng Ying Kuen is Chiu Kao. None of the others, Chan Hon Chung, Wong Lee, Lau Jam, Lam Jo, etc., train it as far as I know

[CPS]

Ng Ying Kuen is indeed often practised in Chiu Kao lineages.
However I believe Tang Fung lineage also has Ng Ying Kuen, but NO Sap Ying Kuen. (At least this is what I read on the website of Yee's Hungga).
Can anyone (Je Lei Sifu?) react on this?

As for the lineages under Lam Sai Wing. Here it seems that only Chiu Kao taught Ng Ying Kuen. However Ng Ying Kuen is NOT a real form. It's just a half Sap Ying Kuen or sometimes three animals of Sap Ying Kuen (Dragon - snake - panter) and then the Fu Hok end (tiger - crane - lohan).
The foreign students of Chiu Kao's sons often were for a short period in Hong Kong. This was not enough to learn the complete Sap Ying. Therefore they learned a part and the end "was just the same as Fu Hok".
I believe some later some other teachers did the same. E.g. Chan Hon Chung learned the Ng Ying Kuen (or better said: the Sap Ying Kuen in parts) to a few foreign students later.

The big difference is that in Chiu Kao lineage Ng Ying Kuen is seen as a main form next to Sap Ying Kuen. Some students now however realise Ng Ying Kuen was only thaught as a bridge, and leave it out of their curriculum. So Ng Ying might dissappear again within a few generations.

[tiet_que]

Under Yee's Hung Ga, Ng Ying Kuen is a major form. Sup Ying Kuen is a minor (or subform as called here).

Tiet Que

[Je Lei Sifu]

In Tang Fong branch, Ng Ying is one of the major forms as Tiet_Que has stated. This form was not created by the Chui's. Tang Fong had learned Ng Ying from Wong Fei Hung, and not Sup Ying.

Patrick Chui, you are correct in stating that the ending is the same as Fu Hok, from the Crane section, until the end.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu

[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger

[hasayfu]

Just trying to understand the last two posts.
How is Sup Ying a subform while Ng Ying is not? Are you just saying that Ng Ying is the major form and though Sup Ying extends Ng Ying, it was additions after Wong Fei Hong?

Or is your Sup Ying entirely different/shorter then Ng ying? I don't know that the Chiu's claim to have "invented" Ng Ying but they defeinitely teach both where Sup Ying is an extension of Ng ying.

[CPS]

The Chiu's just shortened Sap Ying to learn it to thier foreign student, so personally I would not call it "invent"or "create". Probably the Chiu family knew Ng Ying KYun was done by Wong Fei Hung and perhaps even had contact with people of Tang Fong's lineage. So hten you could say he kind of "re-included"the form . (However I know many argumetn can be given that this is not the case. It's just a matter of how you see the form -)

I once heard the story Ng Ying Kyun was created by Wong Fei Hung and Sap Ying Kyun was later "created" by Lam Sai Wing. It's said that he added the five elements after the Luk Sin accident.
If this is true I wonder how come Tang Fong linage also practises Sap Ying Kuen? Does it look the same as in Lam Sai Wing lineage?
Secondly I also wonder why it 's just a subform then? Thsi might indicate that Wong Fei Hung indeed did not have this form in his curriculum, and Tang Fong learned it from Lam Sai Wing. (as sometimes is said that Tang Fung later refreshed his contact with LSW and learned some "new forms".

Does anyone know if all this is true or just a legend?

[tiet_que]

Under Yee's Hung Ga, Ng Ying is a major form from the Tang Fong lineage. Sup Ying Kuen was not from the Tang Fong however added as a minor form under Yee's by a senior student who had studied it prior under the Lam Sai Wing's lineage.

Sorry if this caused any confusion..

Tiet Que

[Je Lei Sifu]

Once again, I would like to reiterate, that sup ying is not a form within Tang Fong's curriculum. It may have been added into the system by some of Tang Fong's Students, but never taught by Tang Fong. I come from Ho Lap Tin's Branch, and my sigung was with Tang Fong longer than his other students. Ho Lap Tin learned under Tang Fong while in Gwongdong at the Yi Yong Tong. Ho Lap Tin also completed the system before Tang Fong started to teach in Hong Kong. But once in Hong Kong, he assisted Tang Fong with the training his younger classmates. We perform all the sets taught by Tang Fong and sup ying is not one of them.

Peace

Je Lei Sifu [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

The Southern Fist Subdues The Fierce Mountain Tiger