Is Cholayfut the best style for practical fighting??

[phantom]

I have read a few stories where Wing chunguys beat choy Li Fut guys. Bruce Lee used wing chun to beat a Choy Li fut guy. However, I really like both styles. Peace.

[jojitsu27]

I don't think Choy Li Fut is a very good style at all, at least from what I've seen of it.
I visited a Choy Li Fut guy here in Tulsa to do a Wing Chun demonstration at his school, and I was shocked at how ineffective it was in close-range.
The instructor didn't understand the concept of chi sa, he thinks that every attack should have a set defensive move, and he wanted to "prove" to me that the concept of being able to feel what your opponent is doing and thus respond (Wing Chun Chi Sau) wouldn't work.
So he did some attacks on me, and I responded everytime with a simple Wing Chun movement that got inside and hit him in a vital spot.
The sad thing is this guy has been doing Choy Lit Fut for aroun 15 years longer than I have been doing Wing Chun and he is a well respected name in this area. He was also doing really lame crap that would cause him to get his arse handed to him on the street. He would try stuff like dropping low and spinning around to do a strike to the groing. That was my favorite....I simply lifted a knee to block and stepped in to do a chain punch right on his face!
-jojitsu27

ps: My SiGong ran with the gangs in Hong Kong in the 50's before he migrated to America, and he said that his gang that used Wing Chun always creamed the Choy Li Fut and Hun Gar gangs. When they fought they only used Kung Fu and would sometimes use traditional Kung Fu weapons.
Francis Fong is one of the few people alive who has actually used the Wing Chun Butterfly swords on someone.

[BambooStick]

If I like a style then that is the style I'm going to learn. And none of your jive talkin is going to change that.

[tsb]

Solid!!!!

[8StepStudent]

8StepSifu I wasn't trying to knock the credibility of Choy Li Fut, because I know it's another good fighting system too. Like I said before the statment was egomaniacal, but thanks for the extra info though.

[Rolling Elbow]

Hey,

My instructor has taken wing chun and had no problrems using his taijutsu to defend and hit high level practitioners in wing chun..he likes cho lay fut and doesn't think much of Hung- ar lol...hey martial arts are full of stories like this. What is important is that your instructors do not just know fancy techniques (like the drop spin story mentioned above), if they can teach you reasonable skills i think a realistic and dedicated student will know whether or not the style is good for him. I applaud all of you for sticking with your style and also those of you who remind some of us not to brag or get set into thinking that our style is the best..remember..your style is best because at this point in your life, it is best fOR YOU [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[WongFeHung]

Choy Li Fut is extremely easy for the beginner to learn to fight with a reasonable amount of proficiency. The forms teach full arm swinging cup choy,Sow choy,jong choy, and a piercing chop choy that is simple to learn and anyone with enough cajones can flail away with it. They teach to use these strikes in fluid juggernaut patterns across the floor like figure 8s,slamming into your attacker,smashing through their bridges. The wing chun guy who said he fought 15 yr man of clf found a guy who didn't know his clf. Okay, that being said, after the early stages, Choy Li Fut gets extremely redundant. Chan Heung created a handfull of forms and the system grew to over 100 forms, all looking like the next, save for a few variations. My sifu taught Choy Li Fut as well as Hung Kuen (he always maintained that Choy Li Fut WAS a Hung Kuen system) but he like Doc Fai Wong said that to understand CLF all you needed was the 5 core sets, to pass the art on, you should learn the rest. CLF doesn't really get into the higher levels, but that's not what it was intended for, at least not in the beginning. CLF was developed to be spread amongst the people to develop militia groups to overthrow the Ching Dyanasty and restore the Ming to power. Its few sets could be easily absorbed and were developed for multiple opponents.It was also developed for farmers,woodsmen, blacksmiths, and the like, and the weapon sets reflect this. Choy Li Fut is a great foundation system to teach fighting FAST, but if you want to go into the higher levels, Wing Chun, Bak Mei, Hung Kuen,Bot Gwa,Tai Ge Kuen,Ying Yi Kuen,etc,were developed for tht. BTW CLF today includes higher sets, which were added later to the system, such as Joi Bot Sein, Fut Jeong, etc. We use Ng Lun Ma, and Ng Lun Choy,Siu Moi Fa Kuen, Ping Kuen, Sup Ji Kuen, and Sup Ji Kau Da, and many drills, but we don't get carried away with it, after all, we are a Hung Gar Mo Gwoon.

[Jimbo]

I am a Choy Lee Fut stylist for almost 8 years. I agree it is an awesome system. But previous to that, I had studied N. Praying Mantis, and before that, karate and judo. All systems have their strengths and weaknesses, and there can be no superior systems, only superior individuals within each system. And even then, it depends on any given situation.

For example: Fighter A uses "X" style. Fighter B uses "Y" style. Fighter C uses "Z" style. Fighter A beats Fighter B. Then, Fighter B defeats Fighter C. In fact, beats him twice. But...Fighter C knocks out Fighter A very easily.

It's not only the system, but it's more how an individual uses that system. And certain individuals give certain other individuals a lot of trouble, and some other opponents are easy.

I have seen incredibly good CLF stylists and schools. I have also seen very crappy-level CLF schools, too. They cannot even be compared; therefore, to say either all CLF is the best, or all CLF is crap are both misinformed statements.
Jim

[MiamiMantis]

I am very aware of your school, and actually it was Wah Lum that brought Lee Kwoon Hung over from Hong Kong. We scouted out many locations (Wah Lum of Miami)and finally settled on the location that you are at now. It was unfortunate that he passed away, I knew him and he was a very good man. Now to my point. Your particular school does well because he dominated in full contact in Hong Kong before he came over, and he stresses fighting very heavily from what I understand. It is not that Wah Lum is not competitve fighting wise it's more that Wah Lum concentrates on other aspects of Kung Fu than full contact. It's more like each to his own. We all know how to fight but some of us concentrate of forms or weapon or some on fighting. You must remember long range is also a trait of Northern systems.... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[Sow Choy]

I would like to apologise for my si dy

I am a senior instructor at the Lee Koon Hung Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu Association in Ft Lauderdale. Whoever it is speaking on our behalf who created this post, does not represent our school in any way.

We respect all styles and arts and wish to be friends with everyone in order to promote Martial Arts for everyone. I speak on behalf of Master Li Siu Hung who is Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung's brother.

All styles win and lose it doesn't matter. Never give up. And Master Li believes you shouldn't just talk about Kung u you need to do it.

I am very sorry if anyone was offended. Peace to all our Kung Fu brothers and sisters.

Joe Keit

[8stepsifu]

If you ask Master Sun about other styles and Martial arts "celebrities" he doesn't know them or hang out with them. You will never see him with bill "superfoot" wallace or any of the forms champions. He is one of the last Grandmasters of a complete system and there are very few people on earth at his level. I've asked him if he sought out anyone else like him and he said no. I think all those high level grandmasters just do their own thing. The wannabee Masters are the ones that are always jumping in front of the spotlight.

BTW thanks for the info on the CLF grandmaster. In the United States martial arts are either unknown or misunderstood. The life of a martial artist is hard, time consuming and very rewarding, but unless you live in San Fran, LA, or NY its a very solitary lifestyle. Few people in the U.S. have any respect or understanding for what we do. If were not emediately equated with "three ninjas" or the "Karate Kid" they think were the TKD geek they beat up in High School. Thats why I'm always looking for people that have trained hard are know a high level of material and have skill. They come from every martial arts style, but these people are few and far between


BlackJack....what I'm basically saying is that he knows kung fu and doesn't know anything about martial arts trivia. Either do I for that matter. If I don't know who the hell Jon Funk is, Does that mean I don't hit as hard?

8Step Sif

[Black Jack]

Thats fine and the basic point I was trying to tell you is that there is a lot of very real stuff out there that your "Grandmaster" can not teach you and that to be honest some of your posts of late seem to be coming from a robot like backdrone..."my grandmaster is the only one"..."my grandmaster is the best"..."no one moves like him"...be carefull as that stinks of the same type of talk that you hear from the Sin The guys.

Sorry I just call them like I see them.

Of course you can still hit as hard but if you act like you know of everything out there and you realy dont know what is out there you should try to keep your personal "opinions" as opinions as that is what they are and not as some sort of stated fact.

I like your posts and I think you have a lot of stuff to add to any martial art post but be carefull when you speak of someone as the "answer" to what is out there when that "answer" has a sifu camp.

Just some helpfull advice

Regards

[premier]

I read your post and couldn't understand what you were talking about.

first of all

"Chan Heung created a handfull of forms and the system grew to over 100 forms, all looking like the next, save for a few variations."

I've studied 6 forms this far and none of them look the same. I understand that if you don't practise CLF yourself, the forms might look the same, but when you learn the form you understand that the principles are all different. you find out that the techniques are all different.

"he always maintained that Choy Li Fut WAS a Hung Kuen system"

I've always thought that CLF is more like Shaolin than hung gar.

"CLF doesn't really get into the higher levels, but that's not what it was intended for, at least not in the beginning."

Doesn't get into the higher levels? why you think there's over 100 different forms? Could the higher level fighting techniques be there? and no style is intended to get into higher levels in the beginning. in every style you have to learn the basic first.

"Choy Li Fut is a great foundation system to teach fighting FAST, but if you want to go into the higher levels, Wing Chun, Bak Mei, Hung Kuen,Bot Gwa,Tai Ge Kuen,Ying Yi Kuen,etc,were developed for tht."

Wing chun? I haven't studied wing chun but I've heard that it has.. 3 forms or something (I could be wrong here). how can this kind of style be considered as more "high level" style than CLF? Wing Chun with less techniques to learn would be, in my oppinion, the style that's fast to learn..

Nowadays Chan family Choy lee fut has more than 190 forms. claiming that style like this would be somehow low level is ridiculous. and I'm not saying that "more forms, better style" is a fact. I happen to know that clf gets incredibly high level when the practisioner has learned the basics.

I don't want to start a fight or anything, but I get the feeling, you're talking about things you don't know enough about..

[BIU JI]

Why not? I wouldn't say competion is the same as real situations, that padded right punch maybe would have been your down fall on the street.Practical for what ? comps or real? Induvidual fighters teachers make the difference. I've seen clf guys being knocked out all over the place in Sydney comps trying to use Cup Choi or spinning elbows at the wrong time only to be rewarded with smelling salts.If you know how your techniques work and how to set them up right , your apponent may know 50 forms of a higher system but doesn't understand his basics.
Have you ever watched clf and white crane go for
it, they have a tendency to get tangled in each others arms (pretty cute stuff).

[8stepsifu]

Those are my opinions. I haven't seen anyone who moves like master sun. But I'm sure that he has. I haven't gone and sought out every kung fu school and I'm sure that many people here have done a lot of that. I'm curious as to what my master can't teach me? I'm not an expert and I don't claim to be, I know what I know and thats all.

[This message was edited by 8stepsifu on 10-25-00 at 07:53 PM.]