Cross Training?

[Jaguar Wong]

Ap Owyen,
I do agree, one never really "masters" a style. But the devotion to a single style can make their tehcnique a lot more natural, and sometimes much more powerful than if they shifted their focus onto other thing. I do applaud RepulsiveMonkey's decision to stick with and attempt to master a single style.

But the key to truly mastering it doesn't just lie in the drills, and training, you also should be testing your skills. I don't mean by streetfighting, or even entering the UFC, but you really should get some exposure to other styles. If you feel that your style is complete, and does have solid principles for dealing with any attacker, the best thing to do would be to find out, by meeting, and practicing with other people outside of your style, and school. I don't mean learn what they're learning, I mean learn how to use your training against their style. You both learn that way.

So again, I do prefer to cross train, but if not, I feel it's essential to expose your skills to other styles to see what attributes/principles in your style you need to develop. It's just that chances are the key to defeating a particular style, lies within that style (ie: grapplers have the best anti-grappling defense, styles with heavy Chin Na tend to have better counters against Chin Na, etc).

It's all a personal journey, though, and I don't feel that anyone is wrong in the path they choose, unless of course they're out ordering CD-Roms, and video games, instead of actually going out and shedding the blood sweat and tears to earn the skills.

Jaguar Wong

"If you learn to balance a tack hammer on your head
then you learn to head up a balanced attack!"
- The Sphinx

[apoweyn]

jaguar,

yeah. that's much closer to a working definition of a master of their style. that's precisely the sort of thing i was gunning for.

someone who can apply their style in various circumstances. and i think you hit the nail on the head with the observation that you can't know that without exposure to other styles, fighters, etc. like you said, it needn't be a streetfight or NHB. but an alive sort of sparring, whatever.

well said.


stuart b.

[Jaguar Wong]

I should write this crap down. ;)

Jaguar Wong

"If you learn to balance a tack hammer on your head
then you learn to head up a balanced attack!"
- The Sphinx

[apoweyn]

yes you should, brutha. yes you should.

:)

[Ryu]

A solid base is important to me. Although if you look at people like Frank Shamrock, they kind of started their "base" in MMA.
I'm always going to practice judo, but I guess my cross training lets me make it more functional. I can functionalize my clinching, throwing, and newaza because of my cross training in BJJ, boxing, etc.

Nicheren, if you don't mind, could you explain the significance of your screen name? :)
I know a couple people from that Buddhist branch.

Ryu




"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[nightair]

I feel that you should dedicate to one art but be familiar with all others you cross. This way you wont be suprised by any fighter you come across.

---------------------------"uh oh, what is going to happen next?"

[apoweyn]

how can you do that though? that insinuates that you can understand another art without actually practicing it. and while i think you can make certain logical leaps from observation or by relating something to what you already know, i also believe that there are some insights that come from actually doing.

for example, i could make predictions about a knifefighter's behavior just based on what i know about knives. but having actually trained to use one, i believe i have a better idea what to expect.

does that make sense?

[KC Elbows]

Perfect sense.

By the same token, fighting other stylists will teach you things about how your style responds to certain threats better than taking another style.

City, your toast will never go unbuttered again! -The Tic

[apoweyn]

very well put, kc!

i think you've just hit on the essence of style hopping. there's no sense of relation between one experience and the other. rather than learning something about yourself and your practice by exposure to other styles, you train in one style then another hoping that the presence of both (rather than the synthesis of one into the other) will guarantee success.

in other words, training in boxing and then training in judo is no guarantee that you will be able to use both in a flowing manner. if you don't give considerable thought to how to transition from one to the other, then it won't work.

boxing punches and judo throws (generalizations, i realise). but without some sort of connective strategy, they won't fit together. (how do i go from the punching range effectively to a takedown range?)

so whether you're sticking with one style or crosstraining in several, the process seems the same. start with one thing, then relate new things to it, building an understanding.

to do otherwise (to start over with a new understanding with each new style) seems a bit counterproductive: style hopping.

i've thought for a while now that the distinction between crosstraining and not is not nearly as profound as it seems.


stuart b.

[KC Elbows]

I agree. Eventually, I want to learn pa kua, but part of the selection process that led me to pa kua(other than it being the shiznit) is that my system already contains some pa kua, and the transition would be natural, the styles would complement each other, and then I'd have a lot of throws, which I want to involve more of in my fighting.

City, your toast will never go unbuttered again! -The Tic

[apoweyn]

exactly. that way, new additions become part of a growing understanding and not just a new but separate thing.

besides, you'd get to "walk the circle." i never get to walk the circle. in eskrima, i'm stuck with these crummy triangles.

[grin stupidly]


stuart b.

[zen_celt]

Personally, I enjoy studying a variety of arts and learning new perspectives in regards to fighting. I'm wondering, though, how smart it is to study a number of different arts at the same time. In my case, it looks like I'll be starting Bujinkan Taijutsu with the new year(woohoo!). I'm trying to decide, though, if I should also study Kung Fu at the same time. I would like to learn at the Hsing I academy when I get my new job but I'm wonderig if it's wise to do so or if studying the multiple styles will screw up my training. If I go to the Hsing Institute and study taijutsu, I'll be doing 4 different styles at once(Pa Kua, TaiJi, Hsing I, Ninjutsu). What do you guys' think?
-ZC

[SevenStar]

I'm all for crosstraining. Dunno if I'd train 3 internal styles at once though.

[logic]

I don't know about 4 different styles at once.I have studied 4 different styles in a 20 year period 5 if you include boxing.They all have something to offer and I have learned very good techniques from all of them.

The most I've studied at one time is 2 different styles.I really don't think I could handle anymore than that because of life in general you know, work,girlfriend,social life with friends,but mostly because of work.
So any more than 2 styles at one time for me would be to scatterd out.I wouldn't really get a good grasp on any certain art.
But I guess it would be better than no art at all.

So I guess you really have to decide for yourself.
Do you think you can handle all that at one time.
Do you have the time to do 4 arts.
Will you leave yourself thinned out and not getting a true hold on any given art.

If you think you can, go for it.
But think it over first(and what the hell it can't hurt to try)

[Water Dragon]

I'd say stick with the Bujin, at least for a while. The art may be Japanese, but they use Chinese mechanics. Don't put too much on your plate at once. Hatsumi's a friggin genius and has excellant material. Check your teacher's credential's with Noda City first, there's a lot of crap and the Bujin keep pretty good records of who is and isn't what they claim.