Attention: JF SPRINGER

[KungFuGuy!]

Ralek, I think you didn't read JF's post. He never claimed that his army training makes him a better hand to hand fighter (although I'm sure it helps with more than one aspect), he was saying how his martial arts training has improved his soldiering skills. Your post is out of place and makes you sound even more stupid (somehow).

[Royal Dragon]

Ok, Ok I know,

Basically he's saying the militery teaches ARMED combat skills not UNARMED skills. In the un armed arena, WE are better trained.
Now, I have not been in the military, but one of my trainig partneres is a former Marine, and his basic position on things is similar to Ralek. HE claims it's his Kempo training that made him such a good fighter, NOT his military experiance.

It makes sense to me. *If you train to shoot guns, that's what your going to be good at. If you train to fight empty hand your going to be best at that. It does not matter where you trained, military or otherwise, its WHAT you train that counts.

Now, the military does give you many atrributes that a traditional Kung Fu system does. BUT it also gives many atribute that Traditional arts no longer can, like getting into REAL life and death, under unsurmountable pressure. The Traditional arts can't put you "In the ****". And unless you've been in it, you will never know what your made of, or reach your highest potential due to lack of experiance. In that , the perticular skllls are irrelevant, it's experiancing the extreame conditions that tests a man's medal.

And if I may quote my freind "someone trained in both martial (empty hand) and military arts is NOT to be messed with". Now, Take that person after he's seen action and has known the pressure of life and death struggle, your talking one dangerious man...........................................

RD

[anton]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon


Basically he's saying the militery teaches ARMED combat skills not UNARMED skills. In the un armed arena, WE are better trained.
Now, I have not been in the military, but one of my trainig partneres is a former Marine, and his basic position on things is similar to Ralek. HE claims it's his Kempo training that made him such a good fighter, NOT his military experiance.

His point may or may not be true (as soldiers are also trained in unarmed combat)...... But that's irrelevant. Read KFG's post. Ralek's post is off topic and disrespectful. His argument came out of nowhere. As KFG already mentioned: JF never claimed that soldiers are better fighters than non-military martial artists (although there is a strong argument to say they are). This is just another attempt by Ralek to hijack another thread. I suggest we now return to the topic and stop feeding the troll.

Have any of you military guys done any qigong? If so, did this help you cope mentally with the realities of war?

[JF Springer]

**Your not going to have a machine gun when you are just walking down the street. All that military training where you shoot guns will go down the toilet when you get into a fight in the real world cuase you don't have guns. Military stuff is with guns and bazookas and stuff. Not hand to hand.

Totally wrong. Military science is focused on developing and perfecting the attributes necessary to perform one function and one function only, kill the enemies of America.

**I have more hand to hand combat experience that most war veterans from various branches of the military combined.

Absolute bull$hit as you have nothing to draw upon as a source of information. I spent my time in a US Army Special Forces ODA, that's what Hollywood calls an "A Team" stupid $hit. We trained unarmed hand to hand every single day, full out, no pu$$y pads or "wrasslin" mats. You know nothing of close quarters kill. I'm fixing that for you on the 25th.

**I have been raised in the ghettos of Frederick and have seen and participated in violent street conflicts ...

And I cut my teeth living in the Bronx, NY. Punks like you wouldn't make it down from the Grand Concourse.

[guohuen]

Hahahaha, oh young Mr. Ralek. Why did you turn off your email? I wanted to talk to you in private.
Jack Springer is a Patriot and a Hero and a Master that has devoted himself to helping people like you! How dare you be insulting or threatening to him! I know your not a real street punk because I was one.I know that this is just creative writing for you and it's all supposed to be good fun. You've gone too far.
If you choose not to apologize to the people whom you were rude to, you will never know when I'm going to appear and backhand you in the mouth. There will be nothing you or anyone else will be able to do about it. Trust me on this. If you turn on your email I'll tell you who I am and you can ask the Howard County Police about it.

[JF Springer]

D@mn, once again, hats off brother Hoffman Street, Little Italy section, right across the street from Fordham University. Free fire zone during the late 1970s. Cops quit responding to emergency calls as they were being set up to take roof top sniper fire. A man was his own "law" from Judge-Jury-Executioner. I hear that the Bronx has become a "National Jewel" in the urban renewal efforts. Thinking back on the burned out badlands I knew it's impossible to picture.

If you get into Maryland don't waste your time with this Troll punk. Pay me a visit and we'll go for some decent food and "tell a few lies" about the days of rage There's a whole underground of SpecOps people in my area. He*ll, there's even a plank member of the original SEAL Team right down the road from me. Now that guy has some interesting insights as to what really went down in VN.

[Royal Dragon]

Admitedly, I know little of the military outside of what little those that do have told me.

Do all branches do extensive hand to hand training? or is it just Special forces units? I was always under the impression that the military trained the mental attribtues nessasary for deadly combat, not nessasarily the actual combat systems to a great extent, at least not the extent we do as martial artists because firearms use is a higher priority.

Also, how much of that is Traditional Kung Fu and how much of that is unique to the US Military?

I spent a short time under Master Steven Abbate (Well, his senior Rocky Lombardi anyway) And from his desciption, it sounds like Asian Martial arts as well as boxing (My dad boxed in the army)were a big thing in the military. I'm curious, is that extra curricular, or is it part of mainstream training?

Royal Dragon

[guohuen]

Cool Bro! I have a Mom and a Sis in Md. I'll be visiting sometime this year. Sheila and I would love to have you out to dinner.

[JF Springer]

*Admitedly, I know little of the military outside of what little those that do have told me.

Cool, keep it that way.

*Do all branches do extensive hand to hand training?

Depends, the US Marines have been looking for a standard accelerated hand to hand platform for years. Last thing I know they were trying out was something designed by Tony Blauer, based on "line drills" if you know that format.

*... or is it just Special forces units?

SF is a term unique to the Army. Each branch (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force) has a number of Special Operations units. These generally range from Direct Action (Rangers) missions to long range, deep penetration intelligence gathering.

*I was always under the impression that the military trained the mental attribtues nessasary for deadly combat, not nessasarily the actual combat systems to a great extent, at least not the extent we do as martial artists because firearms use is a higher priority.

Well, yes and no, a true "Zen" answer Above and beyond the mere technical attributes associated with TCMA what do you find? Ah yes, the mental and the spiritual aspects of the art. So what do many MA prize most? Anyone can get the "block, punch, kick, lock & throw" stuff down reasonable well with a fair amount of practice and proper instruction. What cannot be "taught" but only "learned" are what you referred to as the mental attributes. It takes time and repeated exposure to become acclimatized to the ultra violent.

*Also, how much of that is Traditional Kung Fu and how much of that is unique to the US Military?

Can't speak for anyone else but on my team every guy had something and brought it to the table with all the gusto they could manage. Ranged from Wing Chun to Mongolian Wrestling.

*I spent a short time under Master Steven Abbate (Well, his senior Rocky Lombardi anyway) And from his desciption, it sounds like Asian Martial arts as well as boxing (My dad boxed in the army)were a big thing in the military.

Depends. If you look inside a traditional Army Infantry Line Unit you'll find guys that go at this thing 7 days a week. If it's some pogue support unit you'll find guys going at the coffee and donuts 7 days a week

*I'm curious, is that extra curricular, or is it part of mainstream training?

IME, once you're qualified in a Combat Arms MOS and assigned to a Line Unit there's no such thing as "extra curricular" activities. Basically, everything you do is somehow related to increasing your combat abilities. Take a look at the guys in the 82nd Airborne. They are harder than wood p*ecker lips straight across the board.

[Paul]

If it's some pogue support unit you'll find guys going at the coffee and donuts 7 days a week

haha. That's pretty much accurate. I was in support units in the USMC. hand to hand combat wasn't stressed.

The marine corps has a new martial arts program now. Everyone is required to put time into and they have belt rankings and the whole nine yards.

[Royal Dragon]

LoL!! That line was funny.

Seriously though, thanks for the info.

Gian

[DelicateSound]

Man oh man. Ralek's ignorance is superior. Jack, please waste him. Painfully.

Paul - Love the www.despair.com quote! I like:

DOUBT: Its a battle between you and the world. I bet on the world.

LONELINESS: If you find yourself battling with lonelyness you're not alone. And yet you are alone. So very alone.