John Painter

[blacktaoist]

I have talk to a few Renowned internal masters in New York about John Painter skill level today. I would post these teachers names that I talk to, but I know I get Hell for it if I did.

Ok. !#Most of them told me Mr. painter have very good Bagua skill. 2# he have a very deep understanding of Theory and can utilize it unrehash.

Ok. Fine. I myself never Question Mr. Painter fighting skills. Because when I first got in to BaGuaZhang the only people I knew that was writing about BaGua as a fighting art was Robert W. Smith, Jerry Alan Johnson, and Mr. John Painter. Back in the 80"s these guys were the only people to my knowledge writing about BaGuaZhang as a Fighting Art.

Back then these guys were all I had as far as information about BaGuaZhang. As More BaGuaZhang practitioners come out of the wood work. I was able to get my Hands on more new information. Some good some bad". But thats what life is all about Yin And Yang. My sifu Chen Xiao ping , told me something today:

There are three kinds of people:
1# people that want to be World renowned.
2# people that want to be just known.
3# people that just want to be unknown.

But no matter what kind of person you are in this life time, you are always going to have people that are going to love you or hate you.

A person must always stay discipline and balance in everything in life.
I learn today That I didn't keep my discipline and balance. Things you can learn about yourself, from just having a talk with your sifu.

I Sincerely apologe to Mr. john painter for calling him a fake. I had no right to pass judgment on him. If the photos of his Bagua Teacher are real or fake, or if his Bagua come from Sichuan province, it should not matter to me. I gain no benefits from these photos or information about his lineage or talking bad about the man.

This is not true Taoist virtues, My sifu help me see that today.

I think we all should just move on from this matter, its time to walk the circle and make a change".

[MonkeySlap Too]

With a post like that you proved thast you are one helluva decent man.

Kind of rare in our ego driven Wu Lin.

[CD Lee]

Hey Daniel, good to hear from you.

I've never heard of any traditional master charging thousands of dollars. I live in San Francisco, and there are quite a few wandering around here. I was wondering if you could PM me with some specific examples?

Great question. You know the answer already. There are no traditional masters that are real masters, that would do that to students or the public. Not that I know of anyway.

I was actually making an indirect reference to a so-called master who was the focus of a very large thread on the main forum a few months ago. I wish I could remember his name. But people had listed his court documents, which basically showed him to be a big fraud. The problem was, this guy was almost worshiped by his followers, and many paid huge amounts of money to join and learn. Then if they were good, they were asked to pay more to join the advanced group. The guru would charge huge sums to have specialized seminars for his followers to learn 'special' topics. This guy had a shady lineage, and he made the public
PAY dearly for the proviledge of learning from him. This is fraud in my mind. To lie is one thing, we have all lied. But to cause actual financial harm by selling something that is fake is another story.

I was simply saying that as a Painter student, we pay less than the average in our area, and the teaching is rooted in basics. Lineage is not talked about much, and Dr. Painter is totally approachable, down to earth, no bull-s****, and very polite. If he was sincerly trying to defraud the public and students, he would go for the money, and play up the lineage. He does not work that way.

Can I say something on this matter that may shock people? I called on the phone and was not even told that he was the Shifu. I was told about the Kung Fu on the phone, and invited to watch. I joined, and have had a wonderful time learning basics and building a great foundation. Frankly, what a nice surprise to find I lived close to a man of his stature. So hey, I'm learning the internal arts. Cool.

Anyhow Daniel, in all seriousness, I don't know of any legit 'Master' that steals from the public.

[redfist]

very well spoken,
this will be my last post on this thread,
a point of balance has been reached,
i felt that it needed to be brought out into the light and looked at,
maybe some conclusion drawn as you have so eloquently expressed,
i harbor no animosity toward mr.painter,and i wish him and all
martial arts practitioners to find what they are looking for in the arts,to find happiness and to be free from suffering
we are drawn spiritualy to the system most suited to us.
health and self defense are the basis for the enhancement of our
spirit,
i`m quite certain that mr.painter has helped many people through his teaching and i wish him the ability to do so for many years to come,

though we practice for many years when we make mistakes my sifu will without hesitation correct us,
we must all be able to eat the bitter to improve.
mr.painters removal of those pictures from his websight is a sign
that he is receptive to criticism and for that i commend him.

thank you for your insights,like the proverbial lotus rising from the mud.

[Guandi]

>I Sincerely apologe to Mr. john painter for calling him a fake.
>I had no right to pass judgment on him.

I am impressed, blacktaoist. Especially because I had not expected such an act from you.

take care
Guandi

[fiercest tiger]

Come on man, you know deep down he isnt as good as you thought he was!

maybe you should go and test him out? are you aloud too?

[baguatc]

I think the part I enjoyed most about this thread was Painter's statement about stretching the truth but not wanting to be "blatantly" dishonest. Taking the moral high ground in justifying his lies.

I'm with Redfist on this one. He posted fraudulent pictures. He got caught and now the pictures are gone from the website. His actions speak much louder than his words on this thread, which danced around the issue.

As for Painter's skills or the skills of his students . . . we'll just have to see. I travel a little.

[baguatc]

Painter . . .

(1) Never directly addresses nor accepts responsibility for the doctored pictures. Instead, he blames other people ("The entire website was put together by a group out of Canada who helped me as a favor."). Hey Doc, who supplied them with the falsified photographs and other content?

(2) Apparently lying is OK with him as long as it isn't "blatant" (Yes, I have at times been a bit flamboyant with the marketing I admit that but hey, I have not tried to be blatantly dishonest.").
Now that REALLY reminds me of Clinton.

(3) Gets all pseudo-sincere ( . . . trying to follow my heart in the matter).

It stinks. No one would have put that falsified content on the website without Painter either supplying it or approving it.

On to the reactions: yes it's the skills and the teaching that matter most to the student . . . but that's not what this thread was about. It was about false claims.

BT, I've always liked the line you take about "keepin' it real" and respecting your sifus. Your sifus ain't done nothing like what Painter did to promote their art. I'm guessing (and correct me if I'm wrong) that they just don't like seeing Chinese martial arts vilified and baguazhang in particular smeared by rhetoric and bull****, and as traditional sifus just said to cool it. Now they say Painter's skills are good: have they played or sparred with Painter or his students? Just curious.

'nuf said.

[taijiquan_student]

not 'nuf said (even though this thread has gone on way too long).

The photos are suspect, yes. BUT--EVERYONE on this board who has had DIRECT experience with Painter has said he has some real skill, including the very high-level guys BT talked to. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, and saying he's a good guy with some good gong-fu. It's obvious the guy is good from ALL accounts, but whether or not you put him down becuase of the photos (which are now gone) or because his name is Biff is your choice, not mine.

This is my last post on the thread.

This is over.

[blacktaoist]

Baguate) BT, I've always liked the line you take about "keepin' it real" and respecting your sifus. Your sifus ain't done nothing like what Painter did to promote their art. I'm guessing (and correct me if I'm wrong) that they just don't like seeing Chinese martial arts vilified and baguazhang in particular smeared by rhetoric and bull****, and as traditional sifus just said to cool it.


Bt) Baguate you don't have to guess my friend. Not one of my sifus would ever utilize false information. Many of them are very traditional in their methods of teaching.

I agree with you and others own this web page viewpoint. I don't vindicate a person lying. I know my father never justify it. And boy did i get a asskicking if I lie to him or told him a fasle story.

I learn the hard way not to lie when I was a small kid.


Baguate). Now they say Painter's skills are good: have they played or sparred with Painter or his students? Just curious.

BT)The teachers I ask about John Painter Skill, know Mr. Painter and told me he possess knowledge and skill. I don't know if these teachers crosshands with Mr. Painter or his students.
Because I didn't ask them that kind of Question.

The bottom like is I don't approve of of fasifiend photos if it was of Mr painter doing. But we can't just look at the bad side of what we think Mr Painter did.

We also have to look at the good side of what the man did for the Art of BaguaZhang.

Mr. Painter have put out a lot of good practical BaGua information out, back when I was a teen in the 80's. Among Painter there first was Robert W. Smith. But Mr. Painter was also working hard promoting and teaching BaguaZhang. If Not for painter many with not know that BaGua was a fighting martial arts. Many Would have went to learn other fighting arts.

Now I'm not taking up for Mr. Painter he's a big boy and he can defend himself or his students can do that for him.

I'm just keeping it real, the man did do alot for the promotion of BaGuazhang in the public of America. Afican American Martial artists That practice Karate in my hood knew who Painter was and had some knowledge of what bagua was about, way be for I met them.

So that show me he is very renowned in the African American world of martial arts, thanks to inside kung fu and many other martial arts magazines. So I have to give him his respect, because of the good things he have done for the art of BaGuaZhang.

As I said befor we should just move on from this matter, And just do our own practice and be an example to the internal world of martial arts.
Peace.

Therefore the sage avoids extremes, excesses, and complacency.

[baguatc]

"Therefore the sage avoids extremes, excesses, and complacency"

But I LOVE extremes and excesses, **** it!

[-=moth=-]

**

[Justa Man]

Your Sifu's must be very sad to see their students behaving like this....

talk about 'bad mouthing' each other.

[-=moth=-]

*shakes head*

[Justa Man]

moth, why did you take out your last messege? i was just gonna post how you 'shaking your head' just proves the "ego" part in your post too.