Question For Advanced Internalists

[brucelee2]

I just finished reading "The Way of Energy",by Master Lam Kam Chuen, a really good book all about zhan zhuang (standing like a tree) practice. In the book the author says that after he'd been doing zhan zhuang for a few years (with no martial arts training) his teacher made him fight/spar an experienced martial artist, and the author, although scared, was able to defeat the martial artist with ease. I'm wondering how many of you think that simply practicing zhan zhuang, and perhaps also doing lots of mud step circle walking, will enable someone to be a 'good' fighter. Thanks-

[Sam Wiley]

Well, if he was learning the circle walking, he was learning the changes of direction, too...which means he was learning about martial applications from the beginning, just not something blatantly obvious. So it's possible, though I wouldn't count on it.

[GreyMystik]

hi-i have that same book, and i could be mistaken here because i'm quoting from memory only, but i re-read that section several times as well because it threw me too... but i *THINK* it actually said that the practitioner was able to 'overpower' the experienced martial artist with ease as opposed to defeating him. to me, there's an important difference... like i said i may be wrong that's only from memory

[brucelee2]

Thanks for your responses. Just to clarify, Sam- the author of the book wasn't doing circle walking, I do. : )

[Sam Wiley]

Oh. Okay.

Have you learned yet what the changes and stepping mean?

[brucelee2]

Sam-

If you mean am I aware of combat applications in the directional changes and ko and bai bu, I would reply- to an extent. For example, there are some obvious palm strikes and leg locks. In any case, however, it sounds like you don't think this is enough to 'learn to fight.'

[Nexus]

It's never enough... Aim for enlightenment

[red_fists]

Hi brucelee2.

The question really is:

"What is enough to learn to fight?"

Some people are natural fighters, other aren't.

Some People train for a few years and are good fighter, others for their entire life and will always be beaten.

It is said that Yan Lu Chan defeated all his Enemies using only "Grasp Bird's Tail."

So how much is enough?

"The thousand techniques you trained a few times or the one you trained a thousand times."

The answer lies within you and only you can find it within yourself.

IMO, the internal Arts are one way that allow you to discover that answer.
But no MA will make you into a fighter unless you got the potential to be one.
May you be able to find the answers to your questions.

[Sam Wiley]

I do not feel that walking the circle and learning all that is involved will give you the ability to fight the Bagua way, but it gives you the foundation. As the foundation, it is one of the most important things you can practice. Walking the circle gives you some of the fastest, most reliable footwork of any martial art. Coupled with the hands' ability to change easily and adapt from one situation to another, this will give you the ability to both evade the opponent's attack and invade his space. Neither technique nor power matter if you cannot get in to use it. Eventually, by practicing correctly, your power will develop tremendously. Even if you can get in, a technique doesn't have any effect without proper power. And later on your technique will get better, so that you can actually do something with your power once you get in.

As Guohuen wrote, "first speed, then power, then gong fu."

On top of this, walking the circle also gives us balance, timing, and coordination. These are all necessary for the practice of martial arts.

Speed and power are kind of like water and jell-o mix. You can accomplish a little bit with them, but you really need a mold, some fighting methods, to fit them into, otherwise you won't accomplish all that you could or are meant to.

So anyway, I suppose that you could learn to fight a little by walking the circle, but you can learn to fight so much better by doing other things as well.

[Sam Wiley]

I have no idea where the jell-o thing came from. But if you can make sense out of that, run with it.

[Chris McKinley]

Limiting one's training to solo practice of ANY kind ignores the fundamental Taoist arts concept of energy interaction between two people, whether for healing or for fighting. Solo practice ONLY will not produce a superior fighter, no matter how effective or advanced the neigong practice may be.

[Sam Wiley]

True, Chris. I can't get in enough practice with a partner. I can do that kind of stuff literally all day. To be a superior fighter you need a lot of it. But to be merely "good" you don't.

But I feel that in the first few years of training, you do not need to focus that much on it. You need to build a foundation first, and then work on the two person stuff. Otherwise it will be too much of an "external" thing.