Predator vs. Prey

[Knifefighter]

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"Whats this? Cant stand to get mobbed by dissenters here on the KFO forum? Not so
pleasant when your the recipient huh? Your such a childish a$$hole knifefighter. And by
the way I have a Masters Degree in Hydrology. What have you got? I hate it when obvious
idiots get condescending."
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Jockworst:

How can people be dissenting with me when it's not my opinion?. As I said before (your reading comprehension problem seems to be kicking in again), this is someone else's take, as I believe in both grappling and striking. Once again (s l o w l y for the reading impaired), I don't have a preference for one vs the other as each has its place in different situations. As a matter of fact, I pretty much agree with what most of the others are saying here.

A Masters in Hydrology? Is that supposed to be impressive? BTW, all my post graduate work was in the field of Exercise Science so I would guess that is probably more relevant to most discussions of the martial arts than is hydrology.


OJ:
Not a troll. I just thought the animal analogy was interesting, just as it is interesting to see the examples here of predators that don't "grapple".

BTW, did you consider this a troll because it contained an opinion that might not be true in the real world or because it was about grappling being "better" than striking?

[old jong]

This is good marketing! Take a look at this clip .This does not means that my brand of soap does not cleans as white as your's!

[rubthebuddha]

weird. speaking of soap, the only brand that has ever left a fimly residue on my skin was zest, the one soap that claims to not do so.

anyhoo, the video was blah, but it could have used something resembling structure or point.

[Shin]

I don;t know who this guy is, but they lack a basic knowledge of biology.

As people pointed out, not all predators grapple. The ones who grapple are those who are not capable of killing their prey with a single blow, and thus risk the possibility of the prey escaping.

I think that says more about the grappling vs striking than the original quote, wouldn't you?

BTW, my favorite animal is the crocodile. 3 out of 4 an animal hit square by a croc dies almost immediately. The fourth one gets dragged out into the water and death rolled. It's also notable that the 4th time generally occurs when the target animal is already in the water, crossing a river or some crap like that.

Looks like striking and grappling together works the best to me.

Man, I love watching a croc hit something. Sometimes, on discovery or animal planet, they show on that isn't slowed down. 1 second little baby wildebeest is drinking some water, then there's a huge spray of water, then there's no more wildebeest.

Nice.

[Jaguar Wong]

Have you guys ever seen two tigers fight? They use a mix of striking and grappling (well, as close to MMA as tigers can get anyway). Their strikes are very heavy handed, and come in vicious combos, then they move in for the takedown. It's pretty scary to think of what the business end of a tiger would look like to another tiger.

Also, dolphins are very aggressive strikers, and can do a lot of damage to sharks and other sea bullies (although I saw a discovery channel show that portrayed "evil dolphins" as well...it was weird seeing dolphins bully other sea creatures for fun).

As for the whole debate, I think it's odd how we like to use animals (particularly predators), to draw physical, mental, and sometimes tactical traits, but when it points to any semblance of grappling, we start looking for other striking animals. I know I did this, even though I do agree that the methods of predators are quite effective, unless you're the prey (which if you're training for self defense, that's kind of a given). hmmmm

This is an interesting debate once you scrape all the ego and testosterone out of the way.

BTW Shin, I've seen a croc hit a guy on the leg out of instinct, and didn't even grab onto the guy. He just wacked him with his upper jaw, and the guy had the most gruesome lacerations down his leg. That to me was impressive. Crocs indeed do have some tremendous power with their head, or their tail.

[Arioch7]

Lions frequently strike at thier prey breaking thier back and taking them down before they grapple.

I have to tell you that sounds an awful lot to me like striking someone very hard and then going in for the kill. I have no objections to that.

Cheetahs will make a running strike to thier preys neck usually, and as Braden stated Tigers tend to do both.

I have ONE very important doctrine that I believe in that is very simple. Use whatever works. If a situation calls for a strike and you HAVE to grapple because that is what you BELIEVE IN then you are a fool. The same goes for strikers.

I have seen many fighters and the ones that were at the top of my list tended to be flexible and let the situation dictate how they responded. IMHO, most situations call for a MIX of the two but that is how I train and it is PAINFULLY obvious to me.

I might remind people that Knifefighter is just posting something but I think you are getting a kick out of the thread... I am.

I find it amusing that this debate is STILL going on but I suppose that is the nature of the martial arts... "MY style is better then yours!", etc.

I liked the animal comparison though so I figured I would throw my two cents into the arena.

Oh, Jockwurst... lighten up a little bit man!

[Mr. Nemo]

Does anyone have those pictures of polar bears fighting? There was one of the polar bear on the left landing a mean right, one where he had the double underhooks, and he was pulling guard in the third one.

[Jockwurst]

I don't know? You tell me what a Masters in Geoscience from the University of Chicago is worth? Where did you go to school? No let me guess...Harvard, M.I.T. Yale, Oxford..etc... I'm sure you'll find some way to best that one or just create some imaginary place thats supposed to be super accredited and highly respected. knifefighter, I dare say that I make more as a state water manager than you do in whatever sorry field you ended up in. Go blow yourself a$$hole.

Oh does six figures mean anything to you. Again I repeat you're a joke. Your not even in the same ball park academically as I. Exercise science (giggle) wahtever.

[GinSueDog]

Jockwurst,
Dude, chill out. There is no need to start bragging about how much money you make on a public forum. If I were you, I'd consider editing your posts because they make you look like an @ss.-ED

P.S.-I have seen Knifefighter compete and I am pretty sure whether he chooses to grapple or strike, he could kick your @ss either way.

[Mr. Nemo]

Jockwurst, according to your profile your birthdate is April 27, 1985. Are you some kind of child prodigy or something, to have a degree at such a young age?

[Jockwurst]

I guess i should have looked at my profile at least once. I was born in 65 and I no longer live in Alabama. I'm in Vermont now. Typo. I'll go bring it up to date.

[Felipe Bido]

Someone asked for the bears' pics....

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Tigers, Lions, Wolves all will grab hold of prey and bring it down to the ground to finish it off. Prey will lash out with it's hooves; but
predators will grab on. Rule of thumb - Prey strikes - Predators grapple. There- that should end the wrestler vs striker debate once and for all."

Got this from Michael E. Reilly's web site. Food for thought.

Oh boy, this Reilly guy needs more time with the dicovery channel.

All the above animals use striking, clawing(nails) and biting(teeth;especially the wolf) to subdue their prey. NONE of the above have digits long enough to "grab". Big cats only hold down their prey long enough to bite into it. Most prey animals either run really fast or they have horns. When was the last time you saw a thomsons gazell(sp?) boxing?
Just goes to show, you can justify almost anything with a carefully worded anology. By most of the concensus here, clawing is not grappling. Yet, that is what all the above animals do.
Anacondas are the only animals that come to mind that actually grab to kill its prey. And, only on animals it can first bite on the neck. So, by the above statement clawing and biting are the ultimare martial arts. But neither are allowed in UFC. hmmmmmm interesting.

[Felipe Bido]

And two..

[anton]

Big cats use striking (biting clawing etc) to maim/kill their prey and grappling to prevent it from escaping.
To relate this analogy to real life: if I bit/tore someone's throat open, I'd let them escape - there is no need for me to hold him down, let him bleed to death then drag him up into a tree and eat him.