out of breath from horse stance practice

[Prairie]

Do any of you folks find yourselves amazingly out of breath after practicing static horse stance? If so, what do you do to combat it? Perhaps I'm just so out of shape that even a static posture tuckers me out.

[jon]

I could hazard a guess and say that your not breathing either correctly or likely barely at all [if im wrong im sorry this whole post wont be much use].
Horse stance is a two fold internal and external excercise.
On an external level it strengthens the legs and back.
On an internal level it pinches various meridians and forces you to lead your energy around your body to prevent cramping.
You need to actively draw your breath right down to your dan tian [below your stomach] and circlualte it. This may sound odd but just breath deeply and steadly and focus your thoughts on sending your energy right down to your feet and out of your palms. Over time the sensation will become more obvious and you will cease to cramp and will be able to breath quite comfortably.
Beathing in horse stance is forced at first but over time it becomes natural and at this time you will not be internaly stressed by the excercise.
Still its VITAL to breath and circulate your energy, by even just thinking your circulating you unconsiously start to relax your muscles and let blood though, this will stop cramping.
If you do not do this you WILL get bad knee's and possibly many other problems. Particualy from prolonged horse stance work.
I hope this is of a little help, many mistake horse as purely external but in reality thats only the very basis of the training.
Breathing is most imprortant, if your unable to breath in the position you need to either go higher[for now] or look at your posture.
I dont get out of breath and i have astma, i do get VERY sore legs after a while though

[Prairie]

Thanks Jon,

I think you may be right. During the first 90 seconds I'm able to consciously take deep breaths. I haven't noticed that I quit breathing well after a while but I will be on guard of this. From seeing my posture in a mirror, I believe that it's pretty good and I haven't been experiencing any knee pain - in fact my knees feel good. However, the time I can maintain the posture is quite small. Perhaps concentrating on breathing instead of the pain in my quadraceps will help keep me in good breath and allow me to be less bothered by the pain. I'll start trying this later today.

I hadn't thought that perhaps I start to take extremely shallow breaths. Thank you for pointing out the obvious as I didn't see it.

[xingyi-boy]

Prairie,

When you do horse stance, and get that sensation in your quads, what does it feel like? We all know that it's a horrible feeling, but next time you practice, try thinking about it in a different way. We usually think of the pain as a "burning" in the quads/legs, right? To me, this "burn" doesn't bother me as much....why is that? We associate feelings and thoughts with ideas (positive and negative) for example, the burning sensation. Burning=fire, fire=destruction and pain, right? This is a negative association to the word "burning". What I'm trying to say is, if you try to think of it in a positive way, the pain will be less apparent, and you may even forget it's there. To me, the burn is kind of like a hot pad. I think "Oooooh, this is kind of relaxing!" so in a way, i don't really mind it. So it's all your putting things into context I guess.

Sorry if no one understood me, just trying to help!

[fiercest tiger]

means you your chi isnt strong enough to hold you up and you need to do more stance work.

[Zantesuken]

keep doing it! it's like building a brick wall. try doing it for 20 seconds inf you can. and if you do you've got one brick down. then try for 30 and 40 and so on and eventually you'll be able to do 5 mins and so on. it's like building a brick wall!

[illusionfist]

I would say its a combination of just muscle fatigue and improper breathing. Another thing to focus on is not concentrating too much on your torso when training your horse. Two things will happen: Tensing (which will cause improper breathing), and on an internal level, you'll bring too much emphasis to your middle dan tien (which often times can cause abnormal breathing). Of course the middle dan tien isn't the focus for this posture, so its kind of counterproductive if you pay too much attention to the torso instead of chong ding and gung yeuh, etc.

Are you training your horse right after some rigorous movements or drills? Cuz this might be a factor too. A little time spent in wu chi before the horse can help out.

Peace

[red_fists]

May I recommend 3 things:

1.) relax more. Sounds like your shoulders and mind are tense.

2.) Don't force the breathing.
One of our students tried to force his Breath and ended up with Piles.(No kidding)

3.) Don't expect results too soon, this will stiffen you up and have bad side effects.

Sometimes less is more benefitical.

[Prairie]

Excellent replies folks!

I'll keep your ideas in mind in future training. I'll especially be careful not to force my breathing as I certainly don't want piles!!

I believe that at times I'm guilty of doing all the bad things listed in above posts. I like the idea of thinking of the burning sensation as a heating pad - although this will be difficult in practice. I don't really tense my shoulders, but I do tense my abdomin as I get tired and try harder to maintain a straight, vertical back. Now that I think about it, obviously this affects my breathing.

Now I've got to put these ideas into practice....

[fiercest tiger]

do u have pain in the back when doing horse stances?

[red_fists]

Hi Prairie.

Here is one tip I read on another Board.

Set an Alarm clock to lets say 30 minutes and hide it from sight.
Now stand lets say for 3 minutes, walk around for a bit, stand again for 3 minutes.
Repeat this until the Alarm goes off.
Slowly extend the time next time.
In your case it might be until the abdomen tenses up.

Not sure if this helps any.

I guess you are following the rule about eating before and after practice.

As well as ventialtion and time of day facing.