Are the critics of traditional kung fu styles right about this?

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
I don't think CMA is too complex. I just think there are bad teachers who cannot efficiently transmit the knowledge, or don't have it, or string people along.

Every GOOD CMA school I have been to produced fighting skills quickly - if you were tough enough to get through the body conditioning and reconditioning.

There is a LOT of material in CMA however, and that is sometimes daunting to a student.

MS has taken the correct, drained it of all its blood, dissected it, put it in a specimen bottle full of formaldehyde and put it on display in the Smithsonian.

[fa_jing]

The Art of my Sifu's class consists of bowing in, and bowing out. Occasionally we would get a lesson in Chinese characters. That's about it.

Now he was all about "just flow," "be smooth," etc. My favorite: "Lose the sound effects." In that sense it was an art.

But no mysticism, no lineage crap. No stopping the class for a lecture on being a good human being.

[red5angel]

I think many arts are too complex for the time and energy people put into it. You can't half ass martial arts.

[lkfmdc]

Sifu Abel using the correct?

Now I've seen everything

[CaptinPickAxe]

I agree with Red5. I know he's saying that people don't put enough time into it, but I think a bigger problem is people who go into a class and only put in 50%. **** 100% isn't enough. You have to put in 150% and still bust more ass to make your training really work.

[red5angel]

right. People sit around and wonder why these guys who do competitions are so good or their arts become so popular? Because they work pretty freakin hard to get where they are and to do what they do. Most people don't work a tenth that hard and hence don't have a hundredth of the skill.
Good martial arts is a way of life, not a hobby and not a part time job.

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Sifu Abel using the correct?

Now I've seen everything

The correct is the only transcendant truth.

[sing fu]

Originally posted by T'ai Ji Monkey

Too many students don't put real effort into their studies.
Many think that doing the form 10 times or so will impart skill and understanding.
There is a correct way of doing forms practice and I reckon that only a small percentage do it correctly.

TJM,

I know you devote a lot of time and effort to your taiji study - can you give some ideas on what aspects of forms training could be trained better?

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Originally posted by sing fu

TJM,
I know you devote a lot of time and effort to your taiji study - can you give some ideas on what aspects of forms training could be trained better?

This of course based on my observation and experiences.

Too many students lack the correct focus during forms practice, they are more worried about the outward appearance of their form rather than the feedback that the form provides.
Many don't seem to visualise their forms and what they are supposed to be doing.

Here is some advise I got from our top guy:
"When you do the form DO NOT start the next posture till the current one is 100%, i.e. adjust hand and feet position if needed, shift weight correctly, don't be unbalanced, etc."
and
"If you made a mistake don't stop the form and start again, but finish the form and do it again."

I try to focus on different aspects during form practice, flow, roundness, weight shifting, etc.

IMO, Forms should form a small part of your training session, rather take indiviudal movements(you got problems with) and train them and/or break them down further and train sections indiviually.

Also students should if possible work more on stepping, balance shifting, standing and so on. Lack of those basics will manifest itself in the form and it's execution.

In my kwoon it is not uncommon for a student to work on 1 small movement nonstop for 60~90 minutes.

Also I see many students with puzzled faces when a movement feels wrong or similar, but they don't go and ask a senior student or an instructor to correct or explain why things feel wrong.

Where I train I can always get advise and often hands-on correction that allow us to feel the difference between correct and incorrect.
We are also not allowed to progres till the teacher is satisfied with what we are working on at the moment.

In the long run I don't think it is a failing of the student but more of the teacher for not teaching students how to train correctly.

Just my $0.02.

FWIW, not training as hard as I would like to, but I am very passionate about what I do.

[sing fu]

Thanks for your thoughts TJM.

I like your approach to forms. It seems common for both chinese and japanese arts to train in a limited number of basics and forms in class, then the breaking down of parts of the form is done in self-training at home, but sounds good you can do this in class.

Bugging your teacher to work on specific movements is good stuff (I do it after class), and I don't see other students doing this, especially over here. I think some of the time, students don't ask/question their teachers about movements in eastern cultures since it might appear impertinent. Maybe it's a case of newbies learning how to learn in the school so they can get the most out of it?

[T'ai Ji Monkey]

Sing Fu.

The way we are taught is slightly different from other schools I have been to.

First we do warmup, silk reeling and the 1st form together.
After this we split up and work on what we think is needed.

Teacher will call a group over and say do the form from Posture X/Tui Shou/etc he will stop us at points to offer corrections or advise.
At times he will let us drill a movement/posture in bits and than recombine it to the full movment.
After some time he will say that is enough for today and calls over the next group.

We continue to go over what we just did till the end of the lesson and train the corrected points till the next lesson, when he checks that specific section again.

At times he will call the whole class together and drill/teach specific things to everyone.

Another thing I like is that when another group is getting corrections we can train along in the background with them too.

First time that I am taught in this method, but I really like it.

I can understand what you are saying with students being hesitant to ask questions.