Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
The church creates all these constructs of having one person thinking they can actually convert another person and so on. It is of course utter nonsense as the only way that anyone comes to god is by their own free will and accord and understanding.

putting on a cloth does nothing more than put a cloth on. it's what is in the heart and mind that counts and if people convert because they are afraid of the consequences, they aren't doing anything at all are they?
100% correct.
It is, in the end, always about control on the part of the organized religious heiarchy.
As you know I am a Christian and best describes as an "old catholic", which means I believe in universal salvation for all ( God; gift of Grace through Christ).
Some denominations believe that only those "predestined" by God will ever "find God" and other believe that only those "born again" will be saved.
Of course in the bible you will find SELECTED passages to support BOTH views, simply because when taken out of context almost anything ever written can be used to support almost any view !