Health Benefits of Santi Shi

[Miqi]

I think you mean Zhan Zhuang/Xu Zhuang/San Ti is not just 'standing still' - but in either case I didn't disagree with you.

I meant precisely what I said - that when I talked of standing still, in zz, it is not simply standing still.

Really?

I have yet to see any American medical institutions OR well-known American martial arts circles promoting it (let alone researching it or over-valuing it).

Wow - that almost makes it sound like I said something silly. I meant its ridiculus over-valuation amongst the people and communities who use and recommend this training method, quite obviously not it's over-valuation amongst people who've never heard of it.

I would define over-valuation on it as being excessively researched, promoted in society, practiced, and viewed as an beneficial health-practice (none of which I see anywhere in America).

Well I don't. Who cares what "America" thinks?

Would you provide some evidence to your claim that there is "ridiculous over valuation" occurring?

No, I don't need to provide any such evidence - "performing extended periods of zz is correct" is the basic position of almost everyone who recommends zz, as anyone involved in this debate should already know, before commenting. However, the briefest research will establish that what I have said is true.

Obviously in the context of nei-gong arts practice, it fills a small portion of practice/knowledge, albeit a generally recognized fundamental pillar...

As a fundamental pillar - research would be nice on it, but I doubt that would happen until there is even baseline-level valuation on the practice (let alone over-valuation).

If this means anything, I don't get it, so I don't care. You show me what you've gained from it - what you, personally, can claim to know about this practice. Otherwise, you should listen to me, and learn from me.

Depends on what your goals are really, but I didn't decline either.. merely noted that if someone isn't practicing Nei Gong (such as basic Zhan Zhuang), then one could go about hitting punching bags in a very tense way, without exploring the "tuning of the engine" and the refining of physical and mental processes.

Boy am I sick of people using these tropes. You should drop out of the debate if you don't really follow the proper practice of serious training combined with zz. It's hard enough as it is to get proper information across, without people wanting their two penneth to be valued at a dollar.

IME, internal component of an art seeks to understand where Li (force) is generated, and work to improve the underlying pillars... if you are exploring the Chinese traditional medicine approach, this would be from Xin (habitual action and subconscious mind) and Yi (intent resulting from subconscious mind), and finally Qi (or different types of Qi in different ways depending on what Chinese text you are referring to) - which supports and underlies Li.

I don't need to hide what i do behind this kind of facade.

There are many on this board who are trying to interpret ancient-chinese terminology/ discover what potential underlying materialistic system(s) may explain them.. that's nice too, as it leads to more research and discovery along the way.

Yiquan is a scientific martial art based on historical and dialectical materialism. It is trans-historical and trans-national. It requires no understanding whatsoever of Chinese culture.

IMO, this talk is all great, but if one doesn't practice - then we can use any terminology we want and it wouldn't make a personal difference.

Well, that's not true either. False and misleading terminology doesn't help. And terminology which leads people away from real understanding of quan doesn't help. And in addition, it is hard enough to explain true concepts without people attempting to score petty points by deliberately misinterpreting things. You may listen to me, and learn the actual facts, or you may continue to hinder me in attempting to explain them. The really irritating thing is, it's not like what I'm trying to get across is particularly special - it's just a matter of seeing the implication and truth of it.

You always mention wanting to see results - but you are vague on what results you want to see. I offer some unsolicited advice - to apply scientific method you first need a hypothesis before you can determine the parameters and know whether a method brings the results you want to see.

Once we have the hypothesis, if our practice doesn't bring that result, then either 1) We are doing something wrong (methodology issue) and need clarification or 2) We understand the method, but it brings results we don't want and need new method

You are hiding behind all of this. I just want you to show me what your method, your knowledge, your "experience" which you have mentioned several times, has led you to. I already know your level - the point isn't to make you show it.

There are few practitioners I'm aware of claiming to be able to do this anywhere in the world, and only one of which I know of willing to put this into research.

The truth is, those people are in hiding, because they live in fear that any of their claims might ever be tested by a serious dis-believer. Like all the Sam Tam's and all of the many others, they live pitiful lives protecting the illusion that they've built.

When I get time - I'll link you to a quite recent preliminary "Qi projection" study related to the Xin Yi Master She De Jian "affecting peoples Qi by projecting into their Yin Tang [point above the nose]" and measuring the receipients EEG Coherence Indexes. Good luck meeting someone who would claim this ability - let alone finding the funding, time, and research-team-with-relevant-skills to even test such claims. The preliminary study shows some interesting results, although I'm not in neuropsychology and can't claim ability to critically interpret the article.

I don't know everything that there is. I don't claim to. But really this is just more smoke screen that people who genuinely want to reclaim quan just need to waft away. Behind it is still just you, and still just me.