WOF: Three or four things that Are on my mind.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Furthermore, you don't even need to believe in God, if God was real it would exist whether you believe in it or not.

But does God exist without other sentient beings? Without mundane sense perception, the world (if we take it on complemetary quantum physics) exists in a kind of probability wave function, whereby nothing is corporeal in a reasonable sense (reason being how humans make sense of the world). Elementary particles exist as waves and particles, but not both at the same time (in the measured, "sensed" (heard, seen, tasted, touched) environment). Until the time of measurement, the particle acts as if it is both things. But once a measurement takes place, it is only one. But how can we describe something that might exist as one thing, when without our measurement of the phenomenon, it cannot be said to exist objectively? God cannot exist unless he is sensed and measured. But since god is omnipotent, etc (all powerful, all knowing), all of which are attributes we cannot sense, see, or experience, we can only know pieces of God. We can know power, knowledge, etc, but never the ultimate predication of these things. Hence, we cannot know God. (As an example: imagine color without eyes. It does not exist. Wavelengths of light frequencies radiate color, so the wavelengths exist, but the colors do not exist without eyes. Now, you might say, well God exists, because we have knowledge of him. If I asked how, you'd say "spiritually." If I asked why we cannot use our 5 senses to gain that knowledge, you'd say they were defunct in the realm of God. So, we have spiritual knowledge of God? Well, what's the spirit, and how does it measure God? That's a tough one, and it involves gross assumption and presumption. In fact, there is no verifiable spiritual knowledge, for there is no evidence of it except deviations in logic, untenable and gross. God is not that wavelength we don't have eyes to see. If I were to ask how you have knowledge of spiritual knowledge--there's the kicker--you can't. If the 5 senses cannot sense God, they cannot sense the 6th, and you can't have knowledge of the 6th, much less of God's interaction with it. Conclusion: your 5 senses make up the sixth and God, as well.) In fact, having more knowlege at our hands, and more power at our hands, we move into a realm of reason where God is actually less and less reasonable. Science (greek for Knowledge) does not attempt to disprove God. But as our science (knowledge) grows, God becomes less necessary, until the point where we say he is unnecessary, and scrap him altogether.

When one of Napolean's chief physicists undertook a thorough explanation of the universe, beginning with the big bang, and ending without any mention of divinity throughout, Napoleon was furious. "How could you," asked he, "undertake the explanation of the creation of the universe without mentioning its maker even once?"

The guy (name escapes me) said: "I had no need of that hypothesis."

Things can be explained without God. Do I need to invoke God to explain, cogently, the origin of the universe, or the formation of this galaxy from a collapsing solar nebula, or the accretion of planet earth?

Nope. But people will impose God upon these things in order to add emotional content to things that happened by chance and universal laws of nature. God is unnecessary in this realm of thought. But he is emotionally reinforcing.

I submit: God does not exist if you do not believe in him. The new world did not exist to Europeans until they "discovered" it. Pluto did not exist until an astronomer "discovered" it.

You're next thought is: well, then, it's merely a defect in human reason and logic that we haven't "discovered" God yet, with sense perception and reasonable, irrefutable data. We've discovered and done other things that we didn't think we could do. True. But God is not like Pluto or the New World. God submits no direct experential reference to verify his existence, nor can he be verified conclusively. I think we all know the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon, and the Passion of the Christ don't really suffice. All of these verifications of God's existence were written by humans, and period only the passing of human intellects (not quite intellectual, no less) and the willful hopes and dreams of a select few, who summarily used their "spirituality" as a hegemenoic tool of power, granting themselves holiness, and holiness for their best friends.

God cannot be "discovered", because his nature will not allow him to be. Logically, he is defunct. Being all powerful and all knowing, and all powerless, and all ignorant, he's fallen into his own trap, and becomes a great and unparalleled ciper. A negation. An affirmation. A paradox. Logic cannot prove God. It never has. Emotions can prove god. They continue to do so at the peril of clear logic.

In my opinion, God is the everything that exists in all places at all times.
If you think of the universe in that way, the universe is all things at all times in all places, God is just a name for that process.
To me that would mean that the universe is intelligent, and thus God/Universe is something you can experience, regardless of any believe or not.

God is a pencil. God is an eraser, God is my penis,, God is your sister's vagina, God is your mother, God is your father, God is a platypus, God is a condor, God is blue, God is red, God is stupid, God is a genius, God exists, God does not exist.

Vicious cycle.

And, since God/Universe is all things at all time in all places, then it is a positive ("loving") force/energy, because in to order to be hateful, the opposite of loving, something has to be separated from itself, which the Universe can not do, since it is always all things in all places at all times.

What do you mean, separated from itself? When I hate, I'm still me. I am capable of hate. I am also capable of love. But the operative word is always "I".

How am I not myself?

(This is a very profound question)....

So this positive force is always there, you can ignore it or your experience it.

So is the negative force. You can ignore it or experience it. Consequently, only the positive side believes, disregarding the negative side. Detractors (atheists), and those who are nothing (myself), take both sides into consideration. They negate themselves, and leave a vacuum. Nothing has passed. There is nothing.

It has nothing to do with any made up by people stories or books like the Bible.

Culture plays a large role in the function of gods, and God. Animism gives life force to all things, rocks, trees, etc. This is not God. Some cultures had animism. Some have had the misfortune of Islam. Godlessness in one, godliness in the other. You might say the spirit of God was there to start with. They just interpreted it differently. Then where's the accounting for atheists?

I have always said, and still maintain: Salvation is just a matter of geography.

Clearly the god in the bible is not this loving force that is the universe, it is something that separates itself from parts of the universe, because it hates and kills and hurts things that are part of this universe, which the real God / Universe can not do.

The universe cannot be against itself or else it would cease being the whole universe: all things in all places at all times.

Strangely, there is a verly large school of thought in physics, in seeing how all galaxies move away from one another, yet the power of the universe to expand is slowing down, that the universe will collapse back into the singularity from which it sprang. The universe has no "itself". It does harbor some strange hairless apes that give it tangible existence, but it is not self aware, has no ideas as to how it should operate, and it does not fear becoming "nothing" again. We do, on the other hand. The operative word in that being "we."

Or "I" as it is.