Honest HFY Question-

[JPinAZ]

Forms do not lie no matter what a student or teacher says.

I totally agree

It is tradition for Sifu to add their own signature to their forms . One purpose of this is to enable those with knowledge to identify where the student learned or what Sifu had influence over that students art no matter what the student says.

Yip Man added several unique signatures to his wing chun. Many of his students added their own signatures. For example Robert Chu could explain the signatures of his teacher Cheung Sifu. No matter where you go if you know you can always identify the wing chun that stems from Hawkins Cheung. This is just an example.

Again I can see your point. But if the Sifu adds or subtracts to a form or anything else in WC to make it personal, that is just thier own style. If a system of MA's is complete, then there is no reason to add/subtract anything to give personal flavor. This is most likely why we so many differences between the lines that have come down since YM's teachings.
Now, I can understand focusing on certain aspects of the forms from time-to-time to help train something that is being focused on in class. But this is more of SLT drilling over SNT. (more below)

My point, HFY forms at least the ones I have seen contain Yip Mans signatures. Things that Yip Man invented and added.

You would have to give examples here. Since you claim you've seen these things, as you say, this should not be too difficult a thing to explain in more detail. From what I have learned of both HFY and YM WC, things are NOT the same. Not the forms, not the concepts, etc. Sure there are similarities, but, you're going to see that in all lines of WC - why? Because they are ALL WC! They all come from the same source. But to say you see things in HFY forms that you know YM 'invented' is something you should probably qualify.

There fore we know that no matter what is said HFY is built at least in part on Yip Man wing chun. The only question is does HFY also contain TWC signatures if it does then it is at least in part an outgrowth of TWC no matter what anyone form HFY says. If HFY does not contain TWC signatures then it stems in part from Yip Man without going through Willian Cheung.

IF HFY in fact did pre date Yip Man wing chun and was not tied to Wong Wah Bo wing chun then it would not contain the 3 forms since they were invented by WWB and Leung Jan.

Do you have any way to actually prove any of this nonsense? My question is, if you are so sure about things, why does HFY have signatures that no other WC has (as far as I know)?
PLease share with us all where exactly you get all your expert knowledge of what HFY has or doesn't have? And please dont say that you've just looked at some pictures.

From a HFY perspective, what we 'see' in the forms follows strict concepts, principles & theories. This is what guides the movements in the forms, and also the movements in combat. The forms also are a way of preserving these concepts/principles/theories. To make changes out of personal interpretation or preference is going against these concepts. If one understand this, then they would realize there is no need to change anything.

Jonathan