Quote Originally Posted by Three Harmonies View Post
Nasty rumor. I have not seen any substantial proof of it. And think about it....

Correct me if I am wrong Sanjuro, but you are/were a bouncer no? In the short 6 years I bounced I can honestly say, chokes being the exception (and technically I was not allowed to choke anyone), Chin Na Fa (joint manipulation), is one of THE MOST difficult aspects of the Si Ji Fa (kick-punch-throw-lock) to pull off. Don't get me wrong I got my occasional wrist lock or shoulder lock, but overall very, very difficult to pull off even with years of training!
So the argument that soldiers were taught joint manipulation as there primary source of hand to hand combat quickly fades into the fantasy realm when looked at with a critical eye. You train soldiers as efficiently as possible. Joint manipulation would not be efficient. Nor as effective as say striking.

Just my two cents,
Jake
I have used standing joint locks when the patron is already "under control" and usually with another bouncer.
I would never trust my well being to a joint lock, even for any other reason than that I am commiting, typically, 2 limbs to his 1, not good odds.
ON THE ground joint locks/subs work well, standing, not so much.
besides that, they take too long to apply when, typically, there is always someone else to worry about.

As applied on the battlefield, past or present, I can see the study of ground work, simple because the chances of falling are pretty high and the application of strikes and clinches, but everything within the context of being armed or facing an armed person.