Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik
To be Fair, there are different Black Flat group in China between 1850 and 1940. So, one must not lump them together.
From the old black flag website, viewed here: http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...engChunHistory

The underground Eng Chun system There were many underground secret societies who claimed their organization was founded by these Five ancestors. These organizations can easily be categorized by five different flag colors: 1. Red flags 2. Black flags 3. White flags 4. Green flags 5. Yellow flags
Yes, there was a black flag group in 1854, but that black flag army was supporting the Manchurian government on the Vietnam border against the French. They are not Anti-Manchu so how can the black flag claim to be anti Manchu?

Also, they have already mentioned the 5 different color flags as shown in the quote above. Those five flags, as well as being stated on the former Black Flag website are from 1920. As identified in Chinese government documents those 5 groups only existed at one time in all of Chinese history, and they were bandits. They robbed and killed people for a living! And, on top of that, the black flag bandits turned against the Chinese people to cooperate with the Japanese army. This group has nothing to do with Anti Manchu and they have nothing to do with Wing Chun. Their history has already changed on their website, and it is obvious that they have a problem understanding Chinese history, just like Hendrik seems to from his postings so far. I'm not sure if Hendrik just don't understand English well and has a reading problem where he cannot understand Chinese history as already displayed on this thread (http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53727) from Chinese government documents. Maybe by voicing my perspective I can clear up some of the problems he seems to have.


Again, From the old black flag website, viewed here: http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/...engChunHistory

Development of Eng Chun Kun inside Black flags society group Black Flags had a smaller number of highly trained troops. The main objective was to train professional killers to kill the Qing officials.
The Manchu didn't event exist in 1920! How can they kill Manchu officials? They were busy being bandits killing regular people. The Black Flag bandits used knives and guns to kill people, not Wing Chun. How can they claim to kill the Manchu? Their time period is already in the New China era! Even if they did exist, why would anyone claim a group of bandits as a respectable group to claim a lineage from? They were nothing but a nuisance to Chinese society.

All the information coming out from the Black Flag group is contradicting documented Chinese history, how can their claims be taken seriously?