Robert Chu's Master Class DVD

[HumbleWCGuy]

Right and I wouldn't agree at all... It's simply that you haven't been taught or haven't seen good VT mechanics IMO.

There is more than one kind of VT strike, not all are the same power.. Nevertheless, they can generate lots of power when done correctly..

Again, it's the crazy eggbeaters that folks associate with VT striking.

I think that some people just drink the MMA Koolaid, or are so afraid of looking different that that they don't go out and do it how they know to do it.

[YungChun]

Um.. where are they?

And how would you know? By your own admission, you can't even find someone to do some training with.

Right so if I can't find anyone to hit right now then of course I have no idea what good mechanics are...

More good thinking from mini-troll..

How about you come over, I'll hit you and then you can tell me if it had power..

[Knifefighter]

How about you come over, I'll hit you and then you can tell me if it had power..

Or even better, since we are on different coasts, why don't you jump into a full-contact match and see how well your power generation works, since you are one of the WC "experts" who seems to be putting down the other WC people as not doing "real" WC in their matches.

How about it?

[YungChun]

Or even better, since we are on different coasts, why don't you jump into a full-contact match and see how well your power generation works, since you are one of the WC "experts" who seems to be putting down the other WC people as not doing "real" WC in their matches.

How about it?

Ahhh so now I have run out and do a full contact match to validate the existence of VT power mechanics for lil old Dale.....

Should I do a little singing and dancing for you too?

Coming right up....

But I know you travel so when you're in town let me know and remember it's about power so be sure and stay nice and still for me, so you can absorb all that non power.. k? (for purposes of measurement)

[Knifefighter]

Ahhh so now I have run out and do a full contact match to validate the existence of VT power mechanics for lil old Dale.....

Should I do a little singing and dancing for you too?

Coming right up....

But I know you travel so when you're in town let me know and remember it's about power so be sure and stay nice and still for me, so you can absorb all that non power.. k? (for purposes of measurement)

Nope, it's all about power against someone who is trying to hurt you badly. Anyone can create power against an immobile object. But I wouldn't expect a someone who doesn't even train to understand that.

I also understand your theoretical non-fighter need to put down the people who are actually doing it by claiming they aren't doing "real" WC... but you can, although you don't even train.

[YungChun]

Nope, it's all about power against someone who is trying to hurt you badly. Anyone can create power against an immobile object. But I wouldn't expect a someone who doesn't even train to understand that.

Right I've never trained.. I just read books...and watch action movies..

The mechanics are the mechanics, regardless of style, power is measured by striking something... The ability to fight and deliver power is not the same thing as the ability of a mechanic and person to simply make that power..

Not everyone can generate great power with or without a partner regardless of style...

[YungChun]

I also understand your theoretical non-fighter need to put down the people who are actually doing it by claiming they aren't doing "real" WC...

I have not put anyone down.. I can simply see what is and what is not VT.. One does not need to be superman to know what boxing is, or what VT is..

Clearly you can't understand such simple concepts because you are a simple minded troll..

Now I'll leave you to your childish jibes, insults and trolling...

[Knifefighter]

I have not put anyone down.. I can simply see what is and what is not VT.. One does not need to be superman to know what boxing is, or what VT is..

Clearly you can't understand such simple concepts because you are a simple minded troll..

Now I'll leave you to your childish jibes, insults and trolling...

Simple minded would be wanting people to believe what you are saying when there is no evidence to support it.

[SAAMAG]

Well to be fair, you can use wing chun strategy with any technique. Doesn't matter if you hit with chung choi or a lead straight or a rear cross. The way it is applied can be wing chun in strategy and tactics. Though I also agree that the style would mean the use of wing chun identifiers like tan, bong, chou choi, chung choi, and etc.

[Ultimatewingchun]

When I moved my school from Manhattan to Brooklyn 8.5 years ago, enrollment decreased dramatically due to geography. In Manhattan I had students coming from all 5 boroughs of New York, as well as guys from New Jersey and from Westchester who worked in Manhattan.

Always carried at least 20-25 students, and sometimes as many as 35-40.

Over the past 8.5 years it's been more like 6-7-8 people coming regularly.

But the truth is...I wanted it that way - so that I could spend a significant amount of time learning wrestling and boxing.

Which would have been impossible with the bigger enrollment, and given the fact that I also work a full time job in the business world, and have a house, a wife, and up until 2.5 years ago when she passed - an elderly mother to take care of and spend time with.

And then there's the TWC politics of what I've been up to - since there are some people who really don't appreciate the crosstraining that I've been doing and advocating.

So now that I'm looking to go back to Manhattan, I plan to continue the relatively low profile that I've cultivated in recent years within the TWC world - and only want to work with about a dozen students or so.

[Ultimatewingchun]

"I predict that in the future (within mma) you're gonna see all of the above from 'wing chun' guys." (Things like bong, pak, lop, garn, bil, lan, near simultaneous beat and one half attack & defense, vertical fist punches with the elbows down and in close to the sides, the Vitor Belfort variation on the same, etc.) -Ultimatewingchun

I disagree Vic, if we haven't seen it up to now, I don't see why we will see it in the future.
People would have to get "pushed" into it and once they begin to see who much they have to "change" and then it is no longer "WC", you'll see WC people either NOT doing it or stop being "WC people".

***WOULD LIKE TO answer Paul's post, and also talk about power generation - since this has become a hot topic on recent threads as well.

Let me put it this way:

I think ANOTHER version of wing chun that will make it into mma fighting (already called Alan Orr's style A version)...okay...another version of wing chun will be something similar to JKD - although I strongly hesitate to call it by that name, since I think that this will have a more decidedly wing chun look and feel to it once in close quarters (and at times from long range) than JKD.

But that said, and acknowledging up front that there will be a boxing, MT/clinch fighting and wrestling/grappling aspect as well...

I think that Bruce Lee's idea about power side forward - along with fighting out of a 50/50 weight front stance - and with a pronounced boxing type footwork with lots of spring coming off the back foot (and with some adjustments in such footwork for the purposes of kicking)...

while using the rear hand to occupy and guard the centerline/central line - that is...when not throwing punches with the rear hand, you're using it to parry, block, redirect, pak, lop, bil, etc...

and the lead hand - but as said coming from your power side will be the key offensive striking weapon - and one that will be using various BOXING type punches, ie.- jabs, stiff leads, round punches, hooks, overhands, uppercuts..

(not that the rear hand won't be used in this way also - along with big rear crosses - and not to say that combinations with both hands won't be thrown - because they will be).

In addition, both the lead and the rear hand can easily be (and will be) turned into wing chun vertical and 3/4 horizontal punching - and yes, at times in a straight blast chain punch fashion at certain ranges and moments.

Furthermore, in what I'm going to call the "possible clinch zone" you'll see some chi sao and WD type moves being used to strike, control, pressure, and yes...stop the guy form grabbing you...ALONG WITH...MT clinch fighting and..out-and-out wrestling/grappling when either appropriate or unavoidable, ie.- pummeling for underhooks, overhooks, w h i z z e r s, etc....

shoots, sweeps, and takedowns, and so on.

[YungChun]

Simple minded would be wanting people to believe what you are saying when there is no evidence to support it.

But there is evidence and logic in VT mechanics..

According to what Alan teaches--he uses these very mechanics.. He espouses that the VT 'full body structure' is superior to modern boxing mechanics because VT structure remains between your opponent and yourself (clinch defense), while incorporating full body power (and ground connection) into all strikes.

[Knifefighter]

But there is evidence and logic in VT mechanics..

According to what Alan teaches--he uses these very mechanics.. He espouses that the VT 'full body structure' is superior to modern boxing mechanics because VT structure remains between your opponent and yourself (clinch defense), while incorporating full body power (and ground connection) into all strikes.

OK, then is he using WC or not? Can't have it both ways.

[YungChun]

OK, then is he using WC or not? Can't have it both ways.

I haven't seen him fight..

I have seen some of what he teaches and I agree that a good deal of that is VT..

On the other hand who cares what I think, the bottom line is that it makes sense, does follow the art and does not agree with your stated (and re-stated) position.

[Knifefighter]

I haven't seen him fight..

I have seen some of what he teaches and I agree that a good deal of that is VT..

On the other hand who cares what I think, the bottom line is that it makes sense, does follow the art and does not agree with your stated (and re-stated) position.

I already said he (and his students) is using his WC to fight. Weren't you one of the people who said he wasn't?