Looking for WSL vs fencer clip

[Ultimatewingchun]

Dale,

On your last post, is that dog/suarez vid part of one dvd - or a conglomerate of several separate dvds?

Or perhaps part of one specific set of dvds?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Dale,

On your last post, is that dog/suarez vid part of one dvd - or a conglomerate of several separate dvds?

Or perhaps part of one specific set of dvds?

It's the Die less often DVD series from the Dog Brothers, one of the best on the market.

[Knifefighter]

Knifefighter a question for you. I see a great deal in this last link you posted and in every other dog brothers tape I have seen that is straight wing chun at least the wing chun I was taught. I always had the impression you were just out right negative on wing chun. Is your issue with wing chun itself or in the way it is taught and practiced?

In what part of that are you seeing WC?

[sanjuro_ronin]

In what part of that are you seeing WC?

He MAY be referring to the "dog catcher", maybe.

[YungChun]

He MAY be referring to the "dog catcher", maybe.

Most of the interesting parts appeared to be pixelated out making it hard to tell what they were doing.

[shawchemical]

Cut and slice means the someone DOESN'T know what he is doing.

This is realistic as to how to train for the specificity of knives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0fPL4f3Eqc

Funny, even the guy who posted that video on youtube agrees that the slice and cut is the preferential option.

You're a ****ing idiot Dale. A true and unique specimen of stupidity.

Just about every edged weapon combat training uses a cut as a primary option. Once you have disabled the man with a cut to a critical target, ie major structural tendons/muscles they are at your mercy. Sure stabs are a necessary evil and maybe a last option finisher, but if you think that that is the better option, you're sorely misguided.

And the big question should be WHY is the cut and slice better? Because your blade is always free and moving, and thus harder to predict and intercept.

Even stabbing weapons like rapiers use cut THEN thrust.

Every time you open your mouth, you just succeed in making yourself appear dumber than T.

Here are some simple explanations of what you clearly miss.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkRjt...ext=1&index=24

[wkmark]

Hello,

I recently have read that the late Wong Shueng Leung had a televised match in where he squared off with a fencer using the baat cham do. I've been unable to find this clip on the internet, does anyone have a copy of it?

Thanks,

Eric,

I have checked with my Sihing Cliff in regards to Sifu's Fencing/BJD event and here are the details as explained to him by Sifu back in the days:

The event happened roughly around the 1970's. During that time one of the TV channels in Hong Kong was promoting some Kung Fu TV series. The name of the TV channel was 佳藝電視 (the TV channel folded in 1978... was sold to another TV company). Anyways, since they were promoting TV series, they wanted to an exhibition coverage of some martial arts. So they got Sifu WSL and a Police officer (not sure whether he was a foreigner or Asian guy.. but i am guessing foreigner since back then HK was under British Rule) who was a top ranking fencer to do some light sparring on Television.

So before the show started Sifu WSL and the fencer was just light sparring, being friendly to each other just to measure the distance and all. After a while, the fencer said that since sifu WSL was using the 2 BJD, thus it was not fair for him as he was only using 1 weapon. So it was suggested that he use 2 weapons as well. The fencer used a long Foil/ sabre or Epee as well as a Short foil/ sabre or Epee. (Sifu didn't know the name nor the difference in the equipment used for fencing) So they went at is a bit more both using 2 weapons. After a while the BJD that Sifu was using was being serrated from the various nicks and contacts with the Fencer's weapon. Sifu was using moves to block as well as slices to get in close to the Fencer. When the show went live, Sifu and the Fencer went at it but because the BJD was serrated by now, when Sifu moved in to for the slice, the BJD sliced the Fencer's forearms more than once causing it to bleed.

The show probably ended when the fencer's arm start bleeding heavily. This was on film and Cliff Sihing had went around to the public libraries trying to locate this film. However 30 years has passed and 佳藝電視 have been brought, thus the film may exist but in storage somewhere.

So this is the story in regards to Sifu WSL and the Fencer. The moves that Sifu did to get in close to the fencer.. you all would have to come to HK to ask Cliff sihing to show you as he got the first hand information from Sifu. As for my previous comment about the show being on 歡樂今宵 was wrong then. (I misunderstood or misheard the information earlier)

Anyways, the above information was what Cliff Sihing told me. If there are any difference btwn what I had mentioned above to what you may have heard from Cliff himself, please use his version as a more accurate recount of the story.

Regards,

[Knifefighter]

Funny, even the guy who posted that video on youtube agrees that the slice and cut is the preferential option.

You're a ****ing idiot Dale. A true and unique specimen of stupidity.

Just about every edged weapon combat training uses a cut as a primary option. Once you have disabled the man with a cut to a critical target, ie major structural tendons/muscles they are at your mercy. Sure stabs are a necessary evil and maybe a last option finisher, but if you think that that is the better option, you're sorely misguided.

And the big question should be WHY is the cut and slice better? Because your blade is always free and moving, and thus harder to predict and intercept.

Even stabbing weapons like rapiers use cut THEN thrust.

Every time you open your mouth, you just succeed in making yourself appear dumber than T.

Here are some simple explanations of what you clearly miss.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkRjt...ext=1&index=24

Speaking of complete and utter idiots, that would be the little fantasy non-fighter (you) thinking that swords and knife fighting are going to follow the same tactics.

Get a clue, dumba$$.

Watch any real-life knife encounter and you will see that slicing is pretty much not even in the equation.

[Sihing73]

Speaking of complete and utter idiots, that would be the little fantasy non-fighter (you) thinking that swords and knife fighting are going to follow the same tactics.

Get a clue, dumba$$.

Watch any real-life knife encounter and you will see that slicing is pretty much not even in the equation.

Dale,

I realize I am not a "gym fighter" and therefore my experience is doubtless tainted.

However, based on my experience, on the street, I would say you are wrong and that slashes are a part of many knife fights. Now, if I were in prison than the tactics would most likely change to multiple thrusts or stabbs, but that is another matter and due to the weapons most likely to be encountered.

Now, while I do not have videos, I do have several scars from real life encounters. While I do have a few from thrusts or stabs, the majority are from being slashes.

Of course those who cut me were probably scrubs so I guess it won't count in your eye

Tell the rest of us just how many real life encounters you have had where someone was trying to hurt or kill you with a knife. Also, how many scars do you have from knife/edged weapon encounters?

Of do you base your statements on the same level of your knowledge of Wing Chun? No real experience to speak of and no real understanding

Oh, you are correct in that swords and knives will use different tactics, I guess watching those old movies helped in that regard

[Knifefighter]

Dale,

I realize I am not a "gym fighter" and therefore my experience is doubtless tainted.

However, based on my experience, on the street, I would say you are wrong and that slashes are a part of many knife fights. Now, if I were in prison than the tactics would most likely change to multiple thrusts or stabbs, but that is another matter and due to the weapons most likely to be encountered.

Now, while I do not have videos, I do have several scars from real life encounters. While I do have a few from thrusts or stabs, the majority are from being slashes.

Of course those who cut me were probably scrubs so I guess it won't count in your eye

Tell the rest of us just how many real life encounters you have had where someone was trying to hurt or kill you with a knife. Also, how many scars do you have from knife/edged weapon encounters?

Of do you base your statements on the same level of your knowledge of Wing Chun? No real experience to speak of and no real understanding

Oh, you are correct in that swords and knives will use different tactics, I guess watching those old movies helped in that regard

I've had edged weapon encounters starting from the age of 13 when I first got stabbed with a broken bottle. I developed an interest in blades from then on and have spent time with quite a few people who have made the knife their primary weapon in real fights, so I've also been witness to many bladed encounters.

I have a scar on the inside of my arm that runs from my biceps down into my forearm that wouldn't be there if my opponent had tried to slash me instead of stabbing. Believe me, I know the difference between what happens when you get slashed vs. stabbed.

I guarantee you, people who make "slashing" their primary objective are clueless when it comes to what really works.

The old "slash and slice them, cut their tendons and wait till they bleed out" is a fake bill of goods that was sold to a whole generation of martial arts wannabe "knife fighters".

[Knifefighter]

Now, while I do not have videos, I do have several scars from real life encounters. While I do have a few from thrusts or stabs, the majority are from being slashes.

And that's part of the reason you are still alive.

[Ultimatewingchun]

wkmark,

I believe that the account of what happened with the fencer as given in your last post to be credible.

WSL was never known as one who made up stories.

And LOL to other current chunners who would like to take this apart and say that it probably didn't happen.

There's a whole lot of "if i can't do this or that with my wing chun then no one can" going on around here - and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who these people are I'm talking about.

[Knifefighter]

wkmark,

I believe that the account of what happened with the fencer as given in your last post to be credible.

WSL was never known as one who made up stories.

And LOL to other current chunners who would like to take this apart and say that it probably didn't happen.

LOL... how many people who have posted on this thread have any background in fencing? None? Yeah, that's what I thought.

For those of you that believe that story, here's an experiment for you. Head down to your local fencing center and get together with one of the competitive fencers who is opening to trying this with you:

Gear up and see if you can even come close to touching him before he lands several kill shots on you. You will find that you never have a chance.

I guarantee you this encounter never happened the way it is being portrayed. It would be like a local recreational 10K runner entering the Olympics and winning the marathon.

[Ultimatewingchun]

It's the Die less often DVD series from the Dog Brothers, one of the best on the market.

***Thanks, Paul...

[Knifefighter]

There's a whole lot of "if i can't do this or that with my wing chun then no one can" going on around here - and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who these people are I'm talking about.

How do you think a guy had next to no experience in competitive grappling would do against an Olympic wrestler or national level submission grappler in a grappling match?

Same principle.