Development

[jesper]

IMO this only applies to beginners. Intermediate and advanced students should be determining their own goals, and developing their own approaches. They should be looking at the spectrum of what you're showing them and determining what does and doesn't work for them. They should be able to solve problems on their own or with their peers with only occasional guidance from an instructor.

absolutely correct.

Just remember that some are more quickly ready to fly on their own and the good teacher will spot that

[couch]

Now you go and get practical on me. shame on you

I know in Real life you need to make compromises at least if you have more then a couple students

Exactly. That's why I don't agree with going to class. We all get lost in a class. I don't get lost when I pay for private lessons from a boxing coach or BJJ instructor. It's the same for any endeavour.

[anerlich]

Exactly. That's why I don't agree with going to class. We all get lost in a class. I don't get lost when I pay for private lessons from a boxing coach or BJJ instructor. It's the same for any endeavour.

The value of a class is practising with/against a variety of body types, strategies, and approaches. You need to train with people less as well as more skilled than you. Some guys in the classes I attend know more about some specific skills and aspects of training than the chief instructor does. Training with the masses gives you realistic feedback of your skills against the spectrum of skill levels, more so than training with the instructor privately does. I don't think I'd enjoy training a quarter as much if I only trained privately.

That said, a really good private lesson can be as valuable as six months of class training, and I have experienced this myself. But IMO they should be supplements to class training rather than the main course.

[Dave McKinnon]

We are still talking about elements of development.

Does anyone think they have a cohesive way of teaching that can take a student from incompetence to competence or from armchair to in the ring in six months or a year or?

If so what is it?

Dave

[Wayfaring]

We are still talking about elements of development.

Does anyone think they have a cohesive way of teaching that can take a student from incompetence to competence or from armchair to in the ring in six months or a year or?

I don't think that just a cohesive way of teaching can do this alone. You also need to build an environment for this. The fundamental areas are striking, wrestling, grappling, and conditioning. So there is periodization involved in blending all those together as well as just the fundamentals of this. Also, it helps to have a team environment where others have already done this. Also, there are very few people around that are competant enough to instruct in all 4 areas of these skillsets. So you kind of need a coaching team too. Then there's nutrition as well, which has to be taught usually. But with the proper environment, program, and instruction all put together it is possible.

[LoneTiger108]

Exactly. That's why I don't agree with going to class. We all get lost in a class. I don't get lost when I pay for private lessons from a boxing coach or BJJ instructor. It's the same for any endeavour.

I find your comment most interesting because although I had the access to learn privately, and that was very beneficial for my 'studies', I found that most of my drilling (hard training) was completed in groups/teams.

Maybe this was because that was my Sifus aim, to prepare teams, but I can't see how you can actually train certain areas of WCK without a team. I have to also admit, this is more difficult when you get older!! I miss having a team around me to be honest.

[LoneTiger108]

We are still talking about elements of development.

Does anyone think they have a cohesive way of teaching that can take a student from incompetence to competence or from armchair to in the ring in six months or a year or?

If so what is it?

Dave

I believe I do have a 'way' that will do this. But I find far too many people tend to shy away from the more traditional models I'm talking about.

Check my thread on Using 5 Elements to teach Wing Chun
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...ad.php?t=59087

Specifically look at the construct I mention. I believe that without covering all 5 areas of training, which you can do intensively, you will not do yourself or Wing Chun much justice at all. If you do train thoroughly over a short period of time you will know yourself how rapid the progress actually is.

Within three months I would need min 6hrs per week with a total beginner and they would have to work on things at home too! In my days learning it was common for some of us to be with the Sifu for over 25hrs a week!

[couch]

The value of a class is practising with/against a variety of body types, strategies, and approaches. You need to train with people less as well as more skilled than you. Some guys in the classes I attend know more about some specific skills and aspects of training than the chief instructor does. Training with the masses gives you realistic feedback of your skills against the spectrum of skill levels, more so than training with the instructor privately does. I don't think I'd enjoy training a quarter as much if I only trained privately.

That said, a really good private lesson can be as valuable as six months of class training, and I have experienced this myself. But IMO they should be supplements to class training rather than the main course.

I totally agree.

I guess I was incomplete in my description of what would be optimal. In learning a skill, I think private lessons are best. Of course in applying that skill, I think that many body types are important.

Example: I spend private time with my boxing coach and he trains me on the mitts and puts me through my paces. He also sets up sparring time and is in my corner when I'm sparring giving me advice. If I tried to do all that in a class-type setting, it would take much longer for all that to evolve and I'd get lost between other folks trying to do the same thing (or even worse: other folks NOT trying to do the same thing).

[couch]

I find your comment most interesting because although I had the access to learn privately, and that was very beneficial for my 'studies', I found that most of my drilling (hard training) was completed in groups/teams.

Maybe this was because that was my Sifus aim, to prepare teams, but I can't see how you can actually train certain areas of WCK without a team. I have to also admit, this is more difficult when you get older!! I miss having a team around me to be honest.

Perhaps I was incomplete in my explanation. See above as I've tried to do better.

Basically, I think I'm advocating 'paying to get taken care of' instead of going to class and getting lost in the masses.

Just my personal experience, that's all.

[t_niehoff]

In learning a skill, I think private lessons are best. Of course in applying that skill, I think that many body types are important.

Example: I spend private time with my boxing coach and he trains me on the mitts and puts me through my paces. He also sets up sparring time and is in my corner when I'm sparring giving me advice. If I tried to do all that in a class-type setting, it would take much longer for all that to evolve and I'd get lost between other folks trying to do the same thing (or even worse: other folks NOT trying to do the same thing).

Quoted for truth.

[LoneTiger108]

Example: I spend private time with my boxing coach and he trains me on the mitts and puts me through my paces. He also sets up sparring time and is in my corner when I'm sparring giving me advice. If I tried to do all that in a class-type setting, it would take much longer for all that to evolve and I'd get lost between other folks trying to do the same thing (or even worse: other folks NOT trying to do the same thing).

Makes better sense now.

Just to be clear too, this 'team' approach works best with 8-10, and they're all watched by elders and the Sifu and given advice throughout. But I see what you mean. You learn better as an individual as most do, but I would advise that you find a good team if you want rapid development.