WCK facing

[t_niehoff]

Victor, T.

Please get a room. There is no need for the two of you to continue this perverse relationship you have with each other in public. You sound like the last stages of a nasty divorce.

Think of the children!

Sorry to bore you. But I think Victor is one of those classroom bullies -- you know the kind, too afraid to go train at a gym but still wants to push people around. I just want him to know that his tactic won't work with me.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Ha! ha! ha! LOL, Mr. Bull5hit.

[t_niehoff]

Ha! ha! ha! LOL, Mr. Bull5hit.

Victor, why don't you just go to a MMA or grappling or boxing gym?

Don't you think it dishonest to teach things you have never trained?

[m1k3]

I'll tell you this. You both fail at humor.

[t_niehoff]

I'll tell you this. You both fail at humor.

I'm not trying to be funny.

[Ultimatewingchun]

But I have trained in what I teach, or are you also a failure in reading comprehension as well as in humour?

And please, don't try to talk to me about dishonesty.

[t_niehoff]

But I have trained in what I teach, or are you also a failure in reading comprehension as well as in humour?

And please, don't try to talk to me about dishonesty.

You haven't trained boxing or grappling (unless by "training" you mean learning via video and practicing it with your students).

And why is it you won't go train at a MMA or BJJ gym to develop your skills?

[Ultimatewingchun]

m1k3,

I know you (and I'm sure you're not alone) are getting bored and impatient with all of this; but you see what's going on here - and has been going on for years - is a blitzkrieg of posts by TN that are meant to inflict his WILL upon the forum.

Typical of the criminal lawyer mentality, he bombards with the same rant over and over regardless of the facts of the case - and regardless of whether his client is guilty or not.

He couldn't care less about the facts or the evidence - it's all about spinning an argument his way, trying to minimize what's overwhelming evidence that's against his client, (in this case, some of his arguments about wing chun/fighting/training)...

or trying to turn the jury (in this case, public opinion, ie.- the wing chun forum)...against the people on the the other side through ridicule and a subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) forms of character assasination (ie.- try to discredit their credibility as a person - in this case, as a martial artist)...

and do it again and again. And that's the key: do it again and again.

The strategy is to try and wear down not only the opposition but the jury of public opinion through constant repetition.

But when that strategy involves telling everyone that "they don't train with competent people - but he does"...

then he leaves himself open to being called out, ie.- now he has to provide evidence that he actually does what he keeps telling other people that they don't do.

But the problem for him is this: this is not a courtroom, and his arguments (and he himself) will get exposed as he can't just tell the judge that the witness should be confined to just answering the question he carefully poses and then say no more.

And then there's another problem for him: Someone (ie.- in this case, me) might post the same mantra again-and-again against his argument (and him):

SHOW US A VID OF YOU SPARRING COMPETITIVELY AGAINST COMPETENT PEOPLE.

And if this is done long enough - then his attempts to impose his WILL (ie.- his point of view) gets neutralized.

And that is exactly what he's complaining about with the "school yard" bully remark.

The bully is getting bullied - and he doesn't like it.

[m1k3]

I'm not trying to be funny.

No, but I was.

I guess that was one of those epic fail posts. My rep here is ruined. I must go do SLT in a cold shower until my chi and self esteem have been restored.

BTW t. it's pretty obvious that you are not trying to be funny.

[m1k3]

Victor, you don't have to worry about T brainwashing me. I've been married over 35 years now. The only opinions I have are my wife's.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Ha! Ha! Good one.

[Alan Orr]

The misinformation about TWC continues, from the usual suspects (singular), I see.

A fair number of my fellow students from our various Australian branches have fought in kickboxing, BJJ, and MMA events, some at pro level and some in intermediate level no gi and purple belt gi matches in BJJ, with a good degree of success. We've had a competitive presence in available arenas since before I started WC over 20 years ago. One of our guys, Nick Ariel, defeated a Brazilian-raised BJJ black belt in MMA earlier this year, and the match was not all stand-up.

Rick Spain himself fought 37 pro kickboxing fights and over 100 amateur matches. He holds a brown belt in BJJ awarded to him last year by John Will. Rick brings in a number of elite level wrestling and MMA coaches during fight preparation. A number of guys also train at BJJ/MMA schools. A few guys vist BJ Penn's academy in Hawaii regularly and a few more have been at least once. I personally have trained at Sydney's oldest, and IMO best, BJJ and MMA school, for quite a long time.



Most people find a purple belt reasonably impressive. I do also, though rather less so since I was awarded my brown belt earlier this year.

I have to give you and your guys some credit though. You have done fairly well as relative latecomers to the WC/MMA crossover scene, and the DVD's aren't all that bad.

OK, back to your usually scheduled b!tchfest ....

Thats great to hear. Now if Rick or you have input on the forum and would be more that interest to listen as you have background in what you are talking about.

I also do not care what Victor is doing, its only when he starts talking about what I do and know, when he has no clue.

Well done on your brown belt. I hope with hard work next year will be my year.

best Alan

[t_niehoff]

I know you (and I'm sure you're not alone) are getting bored and impatient with all of this; but you see what's going on here - and has been going on for years - is a blitzkrieg of posts by TN that are meant to inflict his WILL upon the forum.

I'm not trying to impose any "will" -- do you think I am going to hypnotize the forum? LOL! -- rather, I'm trying to get people NOT to listen to people like you and to think for themselves, do the work themselves, etc.

Typical of the criminal lawyer mentality, he bombards with the same rant over and over regardless of the facts of the case - and regardless of whether his client is guilty or not.

LOL! How many criminal defense attorneys do you know? None!

He couldn't care less about the facts or the evidence - it's all about spinning an argument his way, trying to minimize what's overwhelming evidence that's against his client, (in this case, some of his arguments about wing chun/fighting/training)...

or trying to turn the jury (in this case, public opinion, ie.- the wing chun forum)...against the people on the the other side through ridicule and a subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) forms of character assasination (ie.- try to discredit their credibility as a person - in this case, as a martial artist)...

and do it again and again. And that's the key: do it again and again.

The strategy is to try and wear down not only the opposition but the jury of public opinion through constant repetition.

Sure, I care about facts and evidence -- it is just they are all against you.

The evidence of what is the WCK core curriculum is found by looking at the older legit branches of WCK and seeing what things they share in common. The method (WCK's approach) and the tools for implementing that method can be found there. And if you don't have the core, then you should find someone to teach you. Do you need a video to find this out?

The evidence of what it takes to develop fighting skill can be found in the gyms that produce good fighters. You know, those places that you avoid. Do you need a video to find this out?

The evidence of how to apply YOUR WCK comes from doing it yourself AGAINST DECENTLY SKILLED OPPONENT -- you learn to box by boxing, not by listening to people who are unskilled boxers *(like yourself). Again, do you need a video to find this out?

But when that strategy involves telling everyone that "they don't train with competent people - but he does"...

I don't tell EVERYONE, just people like yourself. There are people on this forum who are training with competent people.

then he leaves himself open to being called out, ie.- now he has to provide evidence that he actually does what he keeps telling other people that they don't do.

And what does it matter? If you accept that you only get better skilled by working/sparring with people better than yourself, what does it matter if I do or not -- it doesn't change the truth of what I am saying. Alan told you the same thing, he's put up videos and you don't believe him either!

But the problem for him is this: this is not a courtroom, and his arguments (and he himself) will get exposed as he can't just tell the judge that the witness should be confined to just answering the question he carefully poses and then say no more.

And then there's another problem for him: Someone (ie.- in this case, me) might post the same mantra again-and-again against his argument (and him):

SHOW US A VID OF YOU SPARRING COMPETITIVELY AGAINST COMPETENT PEOPLE.

And if this is done long enough - then his attempts to impose his WILL (ie.- his point of view) gets neutralized.

And that is exactly what he's complaining about with the "school yard" bully remark.

The bully is getting bullied - and he doesn't like it.

Please, keep asking for video -- I could care less. Victor, you don't care about seeing videos. They won't convince you. As I told you, you'll just ignore them and go on believing your nonsense (lie your hook defense! or Cheung's judo chop take down defense). The only thing that will help you is to go to a good gym and train with some good people. YOU have to do the work yourself. No one can do it for you. Seeing it won't help you. You can see the very best grapplers in the world on youtube, but you don't train and are still a scrub!

[anerlich]

Thats great to hear. Now if Rick or you have input on the forum and would be more that interest to listen as you have background in what you are talking about.

Well done on your brown belt. I hope with hard work next year will be my year.

Thanks Alan. Hopefully you realise all that "comparative latecomer" stuff was just a wind up.

Work ethic and attitude are what count. Belts are just a byproduct. Your time will certainly come, probably sooner than you think.

And you'd better keep producing - his distant and tenuous relationship to your results are the only tangible base T has for any sort of credibility.

Congrats Andrew. That's a lot of mat time. Good work.

Cheers. A lot of work, yes, but not beyond the reach of anyone here.

[bennyvt]

I dont remember people saying bad things about you alan. I think most on here are happy to see VT people competing no matter what event they are in.
The problems comes when T uses a certain framework to discredit other people and they inturn use the same logic when talking about T, you (only because he uses you to prove points like ,"but Alan said I know more then you) and your teacher.
Do you think sparing is fighting? what do you think a scrub is?