How do you defend aginst a front shove

[mooyingmantis]

Soco and Richard
when redirecting any oncoming attack the most effective way is always going to be downward, opening the upper gate or closing the centerline, unless a much shorter person is punching upwards at your face, but in the case of a shove, oppponents force can be redirected downward with less effort and greater effect.

True mastery of self movement means you....minimal effort with maximum results. repelling 2000lbs with 4 oz of force is an old taji saying.

If you in your next class have a person attempt to push you, lean back slighty and circle your hands around the outside of his hands/wrists and with your handss circle inward and downward to redirect.
Then try it again upward and outward you will find you are fighting the natural movements of thier body, thus making it more resisting. trust me try it.

you speak of countering after this, well thier body and head come forward and thier arms are on the outside of yours............. pick your counter... This is a taji push defense the best and most comprehensive I have ever seen, also found in Aikido.

Still disagree bro.
I understand what you are saying, but I still disagree with what you propose (hands circle inwards).

I disagree with your premise for the following reasons:

1. It is based on a presumption that you know the attack is coming. If you do not know that the attack is coming, his linear attack (a simple push) will beat a circular defense (circling the hands inward) nearly every time.
2. If you do not know it is coming, your hands will probably be closer to the lower gate and in a position to block upwards.
3. What you propose is not a natural responsive body movement. Simply raising the arms from the lower gate to ward off an attack is a natural body response. While the inward circling hands is an artifical response. In Hakko-ryu Jujutsu and Yoshinkan Aikido, both offshoots of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu, natural body responses are emphasized. One acquires faster muscle memory by doing movements that are natural to the body's instinctual processes than movements that work contrary to it.
4. The principle of repelling 2000lbs with 4 oz of force applies in either scenario and would apply regardless of the direction the redirect comes from as long as you are not meeting force with force.

I am by no means saying your method will not work. I just believe what I described can be learned faster and is a more natural means of defense against a surprise attack.