Lama Pai, Hop Gar, Bak Hok

[taai gihk yahn]

The question is if the Original Lion's Roar (assuming there was such an art) has Chuen, Pao, Cup, etc. as taught in Lama, Bak Hok and Hap Ga of today, or something different.

The "whirling arms" are found in Tibetan martial arts.

also, as another point of reference for the "whirling arms", Sat (Hon) also teaches a series of movements from some "pure" Tibetian "qigong" that he learned (while on retreat at Karma Choling, I believe), which are all of that nature, including a sequence of movements that are so similar to a series of moves in CTS's Gam Gong Man Gung set that it's just uncanny (I mean, I can't imagine the point at which those two disparate sources of practice must have diverged, so to have that particular series preserved to that degree is pretty remarkable)

They are also found in Indian martial art (kalari something, I can never spell it correctly).

kalaripayattu; I still remember back at NYU, some woman called me up when we first advertised for "the club" , claiming to have studied this, and was interested in demoing it; of course, at the time, I had never heard of it, so was probably more than a little dismissive (especially as she referred to it as "martial dance", which it is, to a large extent), so she never came down, but in retrospect, I kick myself for the missed opportunity, seeing as pretty much no one in NY teaches it, and there is a lot of very cool "lin gung" stuff in it;

[lkfmdc]

kalaripayattu

yeah, that .....

I had never heard of it, so was probably more than a little dismissive

I am dismissive of stuff I've even heard of at this point

[Gru Bianca]

In NY right now, it's almost X-mas, it's cold and as we gather around the fireplace to roast marshmellows and make hot chocolate, we need something to burn. That book is good to get the logs started

I fully quote you on that

[Gru Bianca]

Most old cultures have wrestling of some sort.

I know that Tibetan Medicine is a combination of Chinese medicine and Ayurveda. The main text of the 4 Tantras is very similar to the Ashtanga Hridaya... and Indian tradition of the 107 or 108 Marma points would have carried into Tibet.

The question is if the Original Lion's Roar (assuming there was such an art) has Chuen, Pao, Cup, etc. as taught in Lama, Bak Hok and Hap Ga of today, or something different. I know forms were made up when it came to Southern China...why else would there be so many sets?

Chan Tai Shan told me that different monks and different teachers took the basics and made up many different forms, and passed those on. The core sets being Siu Lo Han, Dai Lo Han, Siu Gum Gong, Dai Gum Gong, Tiet Lien, Chut Yap Bo, Fu Hoc Cern Doe, Mien Lui Jum...he taught these and a lot more. But the root of these was Chuen, Pao, Cup swinging like a toy drum like that seen in Karate Kid II...

Chan Tai San taught also Min loi Cham?

[Gru Bianca]

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1066702]also, as another point of reference for the "whirling arms", Sat (Hon) also teaches a series of movements from some "pure" Tibetian "qigong" that he learned (while on retreat at Karma Choling, I believe), which are all of that nature, including a sequence of movements that are so similar to a series of moves in CTS's Gam Gong Man Gung set that it's just uncanny (I mean, I can't imagine the point at which those two disparate sources of practice must have diverged, so to have that particular series preserved to that degree is pretty remarkable)


Very interesting info... food for thought...

[Gru Bianca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B09zqMiA4k

I'm no expert of anything but to my eyes the similarities are more then the differences if we especially consider the very first person in the video.

[Jimbo]

In NY right now, it's almost X-mas, it's cold and as we gather around the fireplace to roast marshmellows and make hot chocolate, we need something to burn. That book is good to get the logs started

Thanks!
So it seems the only book references on Lama Pai/Bak Hok/Hop Gar that are any good (at least in English) are the ones by Michael P. Staples:
White Crane Kung Fu: Chinese(?) Art of Self- Defense.
Hop Gar Kung Fu.
Tibetan Kung Fu: The Way of the Monk.

[lkfmdc]

Thanks!
So it seems the only book references on Lama Pai/Bak Hok/Hop Gar that are any good (at least in English) are the ones by Michael P. Staples:
White Crane Kung Fu: Chinese(?) Art of Self- Defense.
Hop Gar Kung Fu.
Tibetan Kung Fu: The Way of the Monk.

Michale had access to good, very real people. There is the "oh that is not pak hok it is really hop ga" thing and a few errors, but certainly it is real stuff. Staples was also a very nice guy who wrote letters to one of my hing-dai (Laurette)

[lkfmdc]

Chan Tai San taught also Min loi Cham?

He taught the one white crane does and a "do lou sau" which is an older internal set

[Gru Bianca]

He taught the one white crane does and a "do lou sau" which is an older internal set

Thank you for the reply

[cerebus]

This is excellent! So much great information being contributed. Thanks you all very much! I am always interested in learning even more...

[lkfmdc]

This is excellent! So much great information being contributed. Thanks you all very much! I am always interested in learning even more...

quiet, we don't want anyone to know there is actual discussion going on here, especially not Gene!

[cerebus]

Heh, heh, oops. I'll try to whisper... Hey Sifu Ross, I was interested in hearing your opinion about the question I asked in another thread here in the Southern Kung Fu forum about the Hung Gar Tiger & Crane set being trained on it's own. Don't know if you saw that or if you even have an opinion on it, but if so I'd love to hear it.

[lkfmdc]

Heh, heh, oops. I'll try to whisper... Hey Sifu Ross, I was interested in hearing your opinion about the question I asked in another thread here in the Southern Kung Fu forum about the Hung Gar Tiger & Crane set being trained on it's own. Don't know if you saw that or if you even have an opinion on it, but if so I'd love to hear it.

There is certainly enough material in that set to practice just the contents of that set

Plus, most of the "old schools" were basicly one or two sets, but don't tell anyone that, they'll get upset

[cerebus]

Thanks! I'll keep it to myself...