Exactly. And I have been doing what Joy suggested. Occams' Razor. Do you agree with the rest of Joy's post as well?Originally Posted by Eric_H
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Exactly. And I have been doing what Joy suggested. Occams' Razor. Do you agree with the rest of Joy's post as well?
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so, it's still yik kum slt, yik kum wing chun, yik kum slt, yik kum wing chun. it's very clear to me. kpm, got it, no? can't help you more!---Before JKD was fully developed, Bruce Lee initially taught "Jun Fan Gung Fu" which is widely acknowledged as his own version of a "modified" Wing Chun. So, using your own analogy.....if Bruce Lee can do a version of WCK and call it "Jun Fan Gung Fu" why couldn't Yik Kam do a version of WCK and call it SLT?
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hendrik, you claim you have knowledge of o-mei 12 jong and you can't even communicate clearly to others! your attitude and manner tends to put off many people. you didn't show your o-mei execises yourself except talking nonsense about o-mei 12 jong in your vids, after 20 years with you, your student still couldn't even do it correctly, that's the reason i asked you these questions. where and who did yik kam learn his o-mei 12 jong from? and did he ever complete his o-mei 12 jong training?
one of my kung fu teachers, he's been practicing o-mei 12 jong for 12 years under o-mei kung fu master ng shun-leung. i asked his opinion about your vids. his reply was almost the same comments along with others. benny meng and some cho ga sifus said "this guy in U.S. doesn't know much, but likes to munbo jumbo." maybe all these people are totally wrong about you. so, i'll give you a second chance to prove youself as an o-mei expert, but your little game with your student was just a game, or attention seeking!
o-mei 12 jong with a series of combination health and strength builders that also concentrate on many soft exercises with the refrain of waving hands. during the sung dynasty this set of 12 jong was invented by a person, 白云 a.k.a "white cloud." 天字 jong (tin gee jong) is the first set... a nice set of the internal workings of the o-mei kung fu system.
.... and hendrik's reply...hendrik, you can't back up your rediculous claim such as 'wing chun came from o-mei and crane.' most people know this fact, dai dung fung, yim wing chun, wong wah bo and leung yee tai and others all came before yik kam, so, from where and who and how could you replace yik kam story to the real history of wing chun coiming from dai dung fung and william cheung?
'wing chun came from o-mei and crane.' it's not a fact, it is your misguided belief.hahaha, who cares? I dont.
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Another pretender.
The facts are:
1, Russell get his set corrected by GM Fu who is the present gate keeper of the Emei 12 Zhuang personally.
2, Sifu Jim Rosalendo also visited GM Fu get confirmation and wrote an article on the Emei and WCK connection.
http://www.w1ng.com/mystery-of-the-s...ei-connection/
3, The following is the kuit for the Siu Zee Zhuang set Russell is performing.
小庄动静参, practicing Siu Zee Zhuang, one must investigate both the dynamic and static state
气脉表里间, Qi medirians on the surface and deep into the body
外用以降魔, Externally, the Application of this set is for Subdue the demon.
敌伤不觉焉。 it is capable of injure the Enemy with the enemy not aware of.
Is the kuit accord to
as you said?
o-mei 12 jong with a series of combination health and strength builders that also concentrate on many soft exercises with the refrain of waving hands.
Last edited by Hendrik; 01-03-2011 at 10:41 PM.
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In regards to the snake and crane, i do not. Joy is free to his opinion and although he and I have disagreed in the past we do not try to force the other to agree to our viewpoint - that is where this conflict began with Hendrik.
Like I said pages (and pages) ago, if he only chose to speak for his own lineage or showed some humility (stopped instigating) we can all have space for our own respective lineages. As was said before, nobody knows the true history for all WCK branches 100%. All we can do is discuss and support or poke holes in different theories till we get a best guess.
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so, you do agree that your student couldn't perform his o-mei execises correctly. then why didn't you do it yourself? seriouly hendrik, i think you can do a better job than your student, show us what your o-mei 12 jong yourself, not your student, not GM Fu, not jim, just you, what do you say to that?Russell get his set corrected by GM Fu who is the present gate keeper of the Emei 12 Zhuang personally.
it's also better to forget benny meng, forget hkb, they have their fantasy to sell to you as well. and they will not and they can't vauch your o-mei wing chun fantasy. since you are a big fan of sergio, let's see you can really find any o-mei and wing chun connection there before wong wah bo wing chun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQHhr...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLqiALIyNMk
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Personally, I would find this very interesting, so if you do know anything about Hung Gun Biu's history it would be very welcomed by me.
As you may have read previously, I've heard others relate to him as Hung Hei Goon which would put his training background under Jee Shim and the creator of Hung Gar. This is also where I have stated my 6 point and half pole form originates, but I have had no feedback on my opinion as yet. The pole plays Leurng Yee Tai taught on the Red Boat was probably a very stripped down version of the original form, of which Lee Shing taught in its entirety and so his student taught me.
That IMHO is one connection to Shaolin. Then there's the legendary Ng Mui (Wu Mei). Now I can't explain why this particular story is now connected to Wing Chun, other than the folk tales of her teaching Yim Wing Chun to defeat a local bully. But I have to admit, I agree with whoever posted the idea that the story is there to highlight something of importance. It may not be the best place to find the truth, but a pretty good place to find meaning and purpose.
Last edited by LoneTiger108; 01-04-2011 at 07:46 AM.
Ti Fei
詠春國術
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1, Russell did it perfect.
that is a direct legitimate teaching from the Emei 12 Zhuang's present gate keeper. One needs to get a legitimate solid information directly from the source.
Unlike you pretending, making all kind of claims.
BTW.
As the Emei Kuit present in my previous post, it is not an exercise and you are clueless.
2, Beside all twisted logic, , you have shown you are not capable of proper thinking,
So, here on you are in my ignore list.
Last edited by Hendrik; 01-04-2011 at 07:55 AM.
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master fu chong wen already pointed it out yik kum slt came from o-mei, but he never said yik kam slt came from wing chun. hendrik, that's your twisted logic saying wing chun came from o-mei, it's your opinion, nothing to do with master fu and his comments. "wing chun came from o-mei and crane." it's not a fact, it is your misguided belief. wing chun came from o-mei is just a fantasy, when are you going to wake up? dai dung fung, yim wing chun, wong wah bo and many others...these wing chun masters and their wing chun kune all came before yik kum slt, don't you understand that?
yik kum struggling to stay on the right side of the yik kum wck, you might be surpised to learn where yik kum slt carries more o-mei 12 jong exercises than wing chun kung fu. what is yik kum slt? it's 3 styles in one:"incomplete wck + o-mei 12 jong exercises+ crane boxing" can you give us some answers to these questions?....where and who did yik kum learn his o-mei 12 jong exercises from? did yik kum ever complete the whole o-mei 12 jong set? where and who did yik kum learn his crane from? in fukien or somewhere else? there are many styles of crane boxing in fukien? do you know which crane school yik kum learned his crane boxing from? since you always like to tell people that you have more knowledge than us...but you never give any answer to these questions. why?
Thu Jul 15, 2010 from Paperocksissorscrapper
I love your writing but why oh why do you (hendrik)so often spend half your post reminding everyone that you cant understand from reading or forums and most people are just faking and so on..... you must know alot of 'poseurs.
If theres nothing to be gained in this, why write it? Just to make people feel inadiquite ? This is a form of bragging in it self. I should know I brag all the time. So what.
Just once Id like to hear you honestly ask a question that you didn't already know the answer to....just to shake things up
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Okay. This is getting quite boring now.
Instead of being a pi$$ing match between hendrik and RB93SAAT (whoever you are!) why can't we discuss the history or stories that do not include Omei/Emei/Ermei stuff??!
Here's my final post here, and I do hope some people out there find this info interesting as I definitely will not do myself any favours by mentioning it.
I have mentioned that 'according to rumour' my Grandmasters Pole Form came from a Hung Gar source linked to Hung Hei Goon. Now, this doesn't mean that Leung Yee Tai didn't develop the 6.5 point pole we see today in the Ip Family because I still think he did. But I am speaking of the 'original form' that came from Jee Shim which is much longer and has more detailed content including a '1/2 pole set'. Hence, why I have always referred to my form as a 6 Point and Half Pole form. I also think it's worth mentioning that within modern Hung Gar/Kuen schools I have yet to hear of a 6.5 pole form.
The man responsible for our pole form in Lee Shing family was known as Luk Ah Choy and again there is a decent write up on his life here:
http://www.hungkuen.net/masters-lukahchoy.htm
AGAIN! This is a DEFINITE connection to Shaolin Temple, if you consider that Jee Shim (Gee Sin Sim See) taught Luk Ah Choy for a very long period of time and he was a classmate and martial brother of Hung Hei Goon (Guan) too.
Now, if this can be evidenced as fact, would this help future generations understand 'why' we inherited these pole plays into an already functional and developed system? Fact is, the pole form 'fits' with many common theories of modern WCK, including central and straight line theories, and with the pole comes much of the traditional Shaolin approach to stance/horse training and strength training drills.
Something to think about and research more imho, but what do you think?
Last edited by LoneTiger108; 01-06-2011 at 05:07 AM.
Ti Fei
詠春國術
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Hey Spencer!
Okay. This is getting quite boring now.
---You think????We have a group here that are very into "selective reading." They pay attention to and respond to only what they think supports their own case. They are not here to truly discuss anything rationally. How many times have I posted the answer to "where did Yik Kam learn his Omei and Crane?" And Henrik agreed with my answer. Yet the idiots keep asking the same question.
Instead of being a pi$$ing match between hendrik and RB93SAAT (whoever you are!) why can't we discuss the history or stories that do not include Omei/Emei/Ermei stuff??!
---It has become obvious to me that this has not been about discussing history at all. This whole thread has been about attacking Hendrik and his theory, even when it was pointed out that the theory exists independent of Hendrik and does not rely on what he has said.
Here's my final post here,
---Mine as well. There is no point in talking to people who aren't interested in what you have to say.
and I do hope some people out there find this info interesting as I definitely will not do myself any favours by mentioning it.
--That's for posting that info!
AGAIN! This is a DEFINITE connection to Shaolin Temple, if you consider that Jee Shim (Gee Sin Sim See) taught Luk Ah Choy for a very long period of time and he was a classmate and martial brother of Hung Hei Goon (Guan) too.
--But from what you wrote, it sounds like this particular connection to Shaolin would apply only to the Lee Shing lineage, not WCK as a whole.
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Okay, you've drawn me out to post once more, as you may not have understood what I wrote.
Luk Ah Choy would have taught the long form we practise in the Lee Shing Family and Leung Yee Tai would have learnt this too from Hung Hei Goon or Jee Shim whilst they were all on the Red Boats, then simplified it to the modern 6.5 point pole we all know in Wing Chun today. (speculation of course!) I say this because there is no movement within the Ip Man pole 'drill' that we haven't got within our 'form', but there are a few things we do specifically that are nowhere to be seen in the pole plays of modern Wing Chun. And as I've said before, Lee Shing isn't to be put into a Ip Man or Kulo box as he had many influences and Wing Chun teachers including the legendary Ng Jung So.
So, in conclusion, if this could be researched properly and proven then the origin of the pole form itself connects us all to Shaolin; whether you practise the pole plays passed down by Ip Man or other families.
Ti Fei
詠春國術
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And my last attempt to have another look at our Wing Chun history...
Check out this blog (if you haven't seen it already!) that an old friend recently informed me about and let me know if you see something interesting coming out of Kuala Lumpur!
http://yipkinwingchun.blogspot.com/
Ti Fei
詠春國術
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OK! Understood! Thanks for the explanation.
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1, I agree with KMP about Lee Shing pole.
The Wing Chun Kuen pole, in the past is said to be link with the lost ancient Southern Shao lin's thirteen spear fishing pole set.
Instead of Hung Gar.
In fact, Chu Gar in Penang Malaysia also has a set name 6.5 pole set if my memory is correct.
So 6.5 in not unique to WCK.
One needs to search for the common denominator of all old WCK lineage's pole and research from there instead of jumping with a story. IMHO.
2, If one investigate into Lee Shing WCK such as Austin Goh's practice below
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ICdVvU4WhE
This is also an evolution of WCK, it cant be the older form, the reason is the heavy breathing and making the sound. Those are not nature for WCK.
Take a look at the older WCK lineage, no one makes sounds and heavy breathing. This breathing is telling the practitioner's breathing is keep at the upper chest level forcefully; instead of sinking to the lower abs naturally (which is one of the reason why one tuck in the tail bone in YJKYM while doing SLT.)
This type of practice might be mimic-ing the Iron wire of Hung Gar which making different kind of sound trying to influence the internal organs. However, this type of Iron wire is also not Internal stuffs but hard Qigong related. Check the history of the Iron Bridge Three or the creator of the set and see for yourself what happen, is the creator of the set an internal practitioner or not.
Also,
Test it out for yourself on the breathing , make the same type of breathing as in the clip and see where is that type of breathing leading to.
Last edited by Hendrik; 01-06-2011 at 08:56 AM.
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