Why do you want to fight?

[jesper]

[QUOTE=goju;1094159]

its hard to have an ego when someone 60 pounds lighter than you sweeps you so your feet are level with your head

Thanks god im not the only one that happend too

My first teacher told me that the man who never lost a fight never had one

[CFT]

I guess my point is, is that just a mindset alone can open up your WC training to a whole new level. You can't hit a 9 ball lined up with the pocket and your cue ball perfectly, without scratching, unless you use a backspin. What makes you think you can use a straight Wing Chun punch, and maintain your structure, unless you know what the recoil feels like from a human body?

Nice post Matt.

You could hit a heavy bag for recoil, weight, motion. I guess that might be what Spencer is getting to. That there are other ways of training and testing.

But I still firmly hold to the belief that nothing 'artificial' can replicate the experience of facing someone who is hitting back.

[LoneTiger108]

I've been training with the pole for 20 years. Patronise someone else, OK, lest you end up looking and sounding a lot more than a little ignorant (if it's not already too late).

Okay. So you are an experienced pole player? So you must understand what I'm saying about the weaponry coming before the empty hand? What core concepts in WCK originate with the pole?

How was that alleged expertise measured, and what qualifications did the judges have? Were they independent?

Lee Shings skill and teaching methods were authorized and 'measured' by Ip Man himself dude. Who else do you think it was?

Other than that, this has develpoed into quite an informative thread so thanks for everyone who has posted their ideas and responses to the original question...

[Graham H]

So you must understand what I'm saying about the weaponry coming before the empty hand?

GH <<<<<<<pukes>>>>>>>

Fairplay you really are turning WC on its head aren't you bud?? Maybe Lee Shing took to many puffs on the opium pipe and maybe you should give up as well!! LOL

GH

[LoneTiger108]

Okay maybe you have a point...

Can't speak for Lee shing but my mind is pretty hazy from my youthful days Perhaps I heard it all wrong and should be listening to you WSL/PB guys

FWIW I aint trying to turn anything on it's head, this was just the way I, and every other student of my Sifus over the years, has been taught the pole.

[couch]

And then my friends started to harass me for even practicing kung fu. So we would play fight. Well, that didn't go too well at first and I was still having my a$$ handed to me. So, my focus completely changed to how to apply these movements I was learning into a real fruition i.e. fighting. Just with that mindset alone I almost immediately began to improve in, not only the play fighting with my friends, but also in Chi Sao.

This is a really great share.

This is what I'm talking about when I say the Wing Chun TRAINING has to change. The focus.

As you said, when you started sparring with your mates, even your focus in the Chi Sau changed.

Great stuff!

[CFT]

Okay. So you are an experienced pole player? So you must understand what I'm saying about the weaponry coming before the empty hand? What core concepts in WCK originate with the pole?

Fairplay you really are turning WC on its head aren't you bud?? Maybe Lee Shing took to many puffs on the opium pipe and maybe you should give up as well!! LOL

But it doesn't seem a million miles away from what Kevin G has written about applying the knife tactics to the empty hands?

[LoneTiger108]

But it doesn't seem a million miles away from what Kevin G has written about applying the knife tactics to the empty hands?

Agreed. He has also talked of the poles significance too WSL did know his stuff!

[sanjuro_ronin]

But it doesn't seem a million miles away from what Kevin G has written about applying the knife tactics to the empty hands?

Empty hand to knife lends itself better than knife to empty hand from my experience.
Pretty much anything you do with your hands is applicable to the blade, but not the other way around.

[anerlich]

Okay. So you are an experienced pole player?

Oh, h3ll yeah. Just talk to my wife and girlfriends.

So you must understand what I'm saying about the weaponry coming before the empty hand?

* leaves aside too-obvious wisecrack about poles, empty hands and coming *

You haven't really said much other state your opinion that it does, substantiated only by an appeal to authority to Lee Shing and anecdotal evidence from your own experience and lineage, neither of which constitutes a proper argument that it has general or the only possible application to anyone else's WC development, pedagogy or effectiveness.

Lee Shings skill and teaching methods were authorized and 'measured' by Ip Man himself dude.

And you of course heard that from the [Yip] man himself?? Thought not.

[LoneTiger108]

And you of course heard that from the [Yip] man himself?? Thought not.

Apart from having issues translating your degree level lingo I thought that this comment was quite funny.

Oh! And the wisecracks! You seem to be a funny guy and I wish you well on your Wing Chun journey dude.

[anerlich]

I wish you well on your Wing Chun journey

Likewise....

[wolf3001]

Most martial art styles traditionally offered challenges it was fairly wide spread for local schools to challenge each other I think it's a part of martial tradition to fight. I don't learn martial arts to just go through the motions. I also don't go looking for trouble but I think that a real martial artist has to test their skills. Most good martial arts people do or have fought. By saying it has nothing to do with Wing Chun your neglecting part of it's past. How many students of Ip Man fought on rooftops and such back in Hong Kong.

[YouKnowWho]

My first teacher told me that the man who never lost a fight never had one

There is a difference between official tournament record and personal activity (street fight). Since there is no way to verify anybody's street fight record, we can only judge someone by his official tournament record. Many people declared formal retirement after become champ. At that point of time, his public record was "non-defeated (never lost a fight)". So the official record just stop at the moment. I'm sure some 20 years old may beat that champ up when that champ is in his 90 years old but that won't mean anything.

Some people:

- always lost in tournaments.
- start losing but ended with winning.
- became champ since his 1st tournament.

The world is not always fare.

[shawchemical]

Agreed to a point, but I'm asking why YOU want to fight?? When there are other skillsets to train that develop this ability.

And FWIW I think self defense and fighting ARE polar opposites. There is nothing in my self defence manual that justifies maiming or seriously injuring my attacker. A simple running technique normally works!!

Total bull****.

If you can't, or aren't prepared to fight and to win, you can NEVER defend yourself.