Goat Restraining or Pigeon Toed Stance

[mvbrown21]

Hendrik,

I'll give you this much. In the lineages that use the ygkym stance for footwork it appears that even if they keep their toes pointed in for the form they do their footwork in the way you're describing. But for us ygkym stance form only guys we see it differently. Neither is right nor wrong, just different structures work for different folks. There's pros and cons in everything and only the religious or ignorant believe there is one path. Try not to be either and you'll spend more time training and less time writing...

[Hendrik]

Hendrik with parallel stance you are describing your own ygkym not Ip Man ygkym and Ip man, Ho Kam Ming and Fong chi wing are all Chinese too and understand Chinese terminology.
Experimentally on boats, buses, trains and ice and against reasonable pushing tests the feet's memory of ygkym was validated for me time and again. Its not dogma or religion.

Your commitment to pushing your yik(?) kam version of wing chun comes closer to dogma and religion.

joy

Joy,

I found you are being defensive and un friendly.



In my post, it is all strict based on human biomechanics and chinese qi flow technical stuffs.

I mention nothing about lineage, so there is no need to bring up lineage and personal attack if you dont like my post.




Re read my post here and see for yourself.

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...3&postcount=57
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...0&postcount=56




I choose to reply you this way because I am ok with people have different point of view. However, similar to everyone, I dont like to be attacked wrongly.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,

I'll give you this much.

In the lineages that use the ygkym stance for footwork it appears that even if they keep their toes pointed in for the form they do their footwork in the way you're describing.

But for us ygkym stance form only guys we see it differently. Neither is right nor wrong, just different structures work for different folks.



There's pros and cons in everything and only the religious or ignorant believe there is one path.

Try not to be either and you'll spend more time training and less time writing...

Matt,

In the lineages that use the ygkym stance for footwork it appears that even if they keep their toes pointed in for the form they do their footwork in the way you're describing.

So, what is the reason technically to do form and footwork in a different way? Similar to those MMA guys is asking why do WCK practice something which is not useful in real fight?





What is the point for you to post the following toward me?

Try not to be either and you'll spend more time training and less time writing..

is this necessary in a technical discussion?




I simply present my view with the support from the biomechnics and Chinese Qi medirians background. if you have anything technically to discuss please bring it up and share.



Did I say anything about right or wrong in my post? what did I say about evolution? read my post again.

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...3&postcount=57
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/show...0&postcount=56

[mvbrown21]

Hendrik,

Think about it this way. Get in the stance, leave one side with toe pointed in and then point the other side out in the same direction parallel to each other. That's our footwork in a nutshell. It's not the ygkym stance itself but still retains the same structure.

Now I got to go, gung Fu class is about to start here soon and I'm much more interested in training....

[YouKnowWho]

keep their toes pointed in...

The PRO for this stance is you can protect your groin area from kicking. The CON is you give your opponent an easy angle to sweep. The best foot sweep angle is if your opponent sweeps your foot the same direction as your toes is pointing too. Since you have turn your toes in 45 degree, it will save your opponent to turn his body 45 degree. This way, instead of re-adjust his body angle, your opponent can just sweep you without any footwork because you have just given him the body angle that he needs.

If you go to the other extream and turn your toes out, the PRO is you have just taken away your opponeny's foot sweeping opportunity. The CON is you may expose your groin area too much.

Something in between should be better compromise. This way, you can change to either extream to perform different functions much easier.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,

Think about it this way.

Get in the stance, leave one side with toe pointed in and then point the other side out in the same direction parallel to each other. That's our footwork in a nutshell. It's not the ykjym stance itself but still retains the same structure.

Now I got to go, gung Fu class is about to start here soon and I'm much more interested in training....

Ok, Thanks for sharing.

[Vajramusti]

In a bit of a hurry- so I will be very brief-

Hendrik- I don't intend to be unfriendly. I just technically disagree with you on ygkym.

Duende- correct- you should be able to fight with ygkym--after a while with practice you fight from any stance.

Lone tiger- I was not dealing with the past but the continuing impact of the past.

Gotta go and do some wing chun

Joy Chaudhuri

[Hendrik]

In a bit of a hurry- so I will be very brief-

Hendrik- I don't intend to be unfriendly. I just technically disagree with you on ygkym.

Duende- correct- you should be able to fight with ygkym--after a while with practice you fight from any stance.

Lone tiger- I was not dealing with the past but the continuing impact of the past.

Gotta go and do some wing chun

Joy Chaudhuri

Joy,

No problem. disagree is ok.

[Lee Chiang Po]

It's not tha hard to figure out the best fighting stance for the human body. If you

- face your opponent, you will expose too much area (CON), but both of your hands can reach your opponent (PRO).
- use your side to face your opponent, you will expose less area (PRO), but you have one long arm and one short arm (CON).

Something in between should be better.

If you have

- 50%-50% weight on both legs, before you move, you have to shift more weight to one leg first (CON), but you can shift any leg you want to (PRO).
- 0%-100% weight distribution, you can move your front leg anytime you want to (PRO), but you can only move your front leg (CON).

Something in between should be better.

So a 30%-70% or 40%-60% and 45 degree body turn stance should be the best comprimise fighting stance.

And this is why we have the side forward stances and the side horse. The lead side covers the outer gate, the rear side covers the inner gate. That can be switched side to side, and the side horse can be applied the same way.
Most everyone that is right handed will lead with their left hand. When they do, I will lead with the right, which puts their own most powerful weapon out of reach of me so to speak. Or at least it will not be easy for them to bring it up and use it on me. If they kick, it will likely be the rear foot, again, the ****hest from me. I can angle step to my right and their kick will burn out at their own center line. If it tags me beyond that point it will have lost a great deal of it's power. Normally I can counter attack when the leg is in the air and the opponent is in a bad position.
You can not really put a % on anything. You just do what you gots to do. I don't really consider the pro and con of giving him more or less target to shoot at, mostly because he will usually have to come around my defenses to get to me anyway. If I mirror him with my lead, I put him at a slight disadvantage. However, it is only a stragegy, and nothing is cut and dried.

[YouKnowWho]

Most everyone that is right handed will lead with their left hand. When they do, I will lead with the right, which puts their own most powerful weapon out of reach of me so to speak. Or at least it will not be easy for them to bring it up and use it on me. If they kick, it will likely be the rear foot,...

I don't like to put strong side back either. When I do that, if my opponent uses my front arm to jam my back arm, I will be in trouble.

We all know that wrestler always put strong side forward. I still think it's better for striker to put strong side forward.

[LoneTiger108]

Lone tiger- I was not dealing with the past but the continuing impact of the past.

Okay Joy. Thanks for explaining, kind of!

You were the one that brought up the supposed Brit-hate.

Dude?? Really??

I will always admit mistakes or apologize if I'm out of order here, but I was on my back foot from the get go for linking the fox and pigeon comments to us Brits, which as I have already admitted may have been my paranoia coming in from another thread!

But you did say, joking or not...

though of course all us Aussies, Irish and Americans hate the Brits

Back to the thread guys! Sorry for the blip...

[CFT]

I think Andrew N's comments about the Brits were tongue in cheek.

Like Joy said, the term pigeon-toed is a common enough term in English-speaking locales.

I have read the same explanaton of the 'yi ji' part of the stance that TenTigers described. i.e. line between toes and line between heels is the Chinese character for 'two'.

The TWC explanation for 'yi ji' at first doesn't make sense since the parallel feet are not the same size. However, if you use 'counting rod' numerals then it would make sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chounumerals.jpg

[LoneTiger108]

I have read the same explanaton of the 'yi ji' part of the stance that TenTigers described. i.e. line between toes and line between heels is the Chinese character for 'two'.

Okay. But are you saying that is NOT what your YJKYM represents? That in fact your understanding uses Chounumerals???

I was 'taught' this by my Sifu, it wasn't something I read about. But I understand that my understanding of what my Sifu taught could be wrong too

[CFT]

Okay. But are you saying that is NOT what your YJKYM represents? That in fact your understanding uses Chounumerals???

I was 'taught' this by my Sifu, it wasn't something I read about. But I understand that my understanding of what my Sifu taught could be wrong too

It doesn't matter. It's what you do that is more important. I practiced with toes turned in rather than feet parallel.

[trubblman]

I am gonna go out on a limb here and I hope it's not too much flame bait: But to fight in YGKYM ( feet parallel with toes turned in ) has to be the silliest thing I have ever heard of. Anyone who does that has never been in a real fight before. I have seen some lineages 'say' they fight in YGKYM but what they were really doing was standing in a prefight ready position, that was outside of the opponent's punching and kicking. I have never seen or heard of anyone stand in YGKYM go toe-to-toe blow-for-blow. I have seen fighting pigeon toed stances where one foot was forward and one back but that's not IMO YGKYM.